Am I just old fashioned?

[Aerin92]

TLDR at the bottom.
All the debates about open world content vs dungeon/raiding content that popped up the last 2 days due to info that monsters were going to be harder to fight has made me realize that perhaps there's a disconnect between what I expect from an mmo and what the majority of my fellow adventurers expect.

As a disclaimer, I'd like to say I greatly enjoy FFXIV as the game it currently is, and the dungeon/raid content in this game is absolutely top notch and highly enjoyable. However I think there was some lost potential in ARR that can be reclaimed in Heavensward.

I guess you could say I'm a bit old fashioned when it comes to mmo's. Here's a few reasons why:

• I miss the risk and danger of going into an open-world area unprepared.
• I like to play with other players I don't know AND talk to them.
• I overall enjoy the "journey" to the reward more than the reward itself. (ie: the funny conversations you have with people in your group when working towards something; exciting encounters where we weren't sure we'd make it but we pulled through.) I’d take a night full of laughter and comradery over a night where I got all my drops in one go.

I’m focusing more on the first point, but obviously the other two points are tied in with it.

To be honest, I think people are overreacting to how challenging these open world zones will be.
Even in older MMO's where difficult open world content was the norm, there were many ways to easily traverse areas that were far too difficult to tackle head-on. I remember back in XI if I and a couple of friends needed to get through a dangerous area, we'd pack a few prism powders(invisible), echo drops(mute), and maybe even deodorant(no smell/chicks dig it). Yes there were mobs that had true-sight and could spot you no matter what but they were few and far between. The areas in Heavensward let you use flying mounts so that alone will reduce difficulty traveling dramatically.

I'm really glad they're putting some more challenge into open world content vs duties, as pretty much 95% of this game's challenge is through duties. And to the people complaining that the zones will become empty after most players get what they want from that area: we're talking about the same dev team that's still going to make us do dungeons over and over in 3.0 that were released at the start of ARR. Not to mention all the FATE grinding they've been able to implement into endgame content ala relic weapons. Do you really think they won't implement ways to keep rewards for challenging open world zones relevant?


For a game that focuses so much on your character being an adventurer, there's very little adventure and very little risk to actually be had. There's very little social elements happening between people outside of FC's which is itself an RNG game if you don't join one with friends you already knew beforehand. These things imo are very disappointing and it feels like a major appeal for playing an MMO in the first place is lost.

I'm not saying difficult open world content is the ultimate solution to that, but it's certainly a step in the right direction. To be honest with you though I think some sort of way to connect with other players outside of your server through some sort of data-center wide party finder/friendlist system is probably the best way to go about the social dynamic issue. And heck, maybe the FC airship exploring will finally scratch that adventuring itch I've been craving, but that won't be fully implemented until several patches into 3.x. If the airship exploring thing does turn out amazing that still leaves the issue of FC content gating which is another topic entirely that has already been done to death.

TLDR:
People are overreacting to how hard the open world content is probably going to be. This thread is probably an overreaction to their overreacting.

Flying mounts = easy traveling around tough mobs.

Open world stuff has more potential to bring local strangers closer together than constant dungeon running with people you’ll never see again. This means more friends, which means more fun!

Honestly, SE just needs to implement a data-center wide party finder/friendlist system.




So do you guys think I've got some valid concerns or am I just old-fashioned and not with times of the modern MMO standard?

[Musashidon]

this will do none of what you want.

what will happen players who find this too difficult quit.

players who are forced to social quit.

players who choose to form parties still don't talk get what they want leave and you are still unhappy.

are you old fashion? ehhh players like difficulty not pointless tedium's.

people don't socialize because that's the players choice not the games.

[Gilthas]

I remember back in XI if I and a couple of friends needed to get through a dangerous area, we'd pack a few prism powders(invisible), echo drops(mute), and maybe even deodorant(no smell/chicks dig it).

This is exactly the problem though. Many people make the argument that tougher enemies makes for more exciting zones because we'll have fun battling tough enemies, but the reality is that they become an annoyance that we avoid at all costs by MGSing through everything.

[Asierid]

Times change, who would have thought...

MMOs are no exception. Open world group content doesn't sell, so no one does it anymore. The one game that offered everything the "old school" gamer wanted is on the verge of death because of it.

It just doesn't work anymore.

[Ladon]

It's not even being about old fashion. It's straight up wanting a game that is more experienced based over being objective based.

Everyone is so focused on the objective in this game and the entire game is driven by it. Everything in between you and the objective is seen as an obstacle rather than an experience and it is an unfortunate perspective to have that ARR has largely catered to up to now. It's developed a terrible perspective in a game that doesn't even punish you in any significant way on failure. Even the slightest deviation from the objective throws many players in this game into fits of rage.

I find the whole concern of a difficult overworld laughable though. They will be the same people that stand around the next major hub city acting like a dofus while they wait for that perfect party finder group or the duty finder to pop while never bothering to venture outside of the city because there isn't much to do.

And I am 100% with you on a more challenging world bringing this community together. Frankly the FF14 community as a whole is terrible and it's mostly because the duty finder really doesn't care about your reputation and you don't need to build a good reputation with others to do anything in the current open world together. Maybe forcing people to work together on the same server might actually push people to start acting a little more decent toward one another.

[Gilthas]

And I am 100% with you on a more challenging world bringing this community together. Frankly the FF14 community as a whole is terrible and it's mostly because the duty finder really doesn't care about your reputation and you don't need to build a good reputation with others to do anything in the current open world together. Maybe forcing people to work together on the same server might actually push people to start acting a little more decent toward one another.

This is such an empty argument.

FFXI had the overworld that you want, and what did we do there? Stick to our linkshell for virtually all the hard content. Those Party Finder groups for Ex fights and Coil? That's where your reputation matters. This idea that forcing group content in the overworld will make the game more sociable is a fallacy.

[Ladon]

This is such an empty argument.

FFXI had the overworld that you want, and what did we do there? Stick to our linkshell for virtually all the hard content. Those Party Finder groups for Ex fights and Coil? That's where your reputation matters. This idea that forcing group content in the overworld will make the game more sociable is a fallacy.

Except that most of the game wasn't hard content for Linkshells. Most of the content was teaming up to level up, or team up for burning circles, or primal fights. This was in fact how many people met up and joined linkshells to begin with.

I met more new people in this game in hunt parties than I ever did do anything other content in this game, and funny enough that was also were at lot pains in the asses built up their bad reputation so that they were avoided in party finder groups.

We aren't taking about Dynamis level content here that is going to force you to field people from your FC. But I simply see no disadvantage to designing content that requires you to field a few other people to take on. Especially went there has been ZERO indication that all zones will require this.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

Why not have actually hard open-world content that rewards powerful gear. Maybe add coil-challenge hard bosses in the open world that wander around? You can even actidently pull more mobs in making the fights harder!

[Cyrus-Wallace]

People were begging for it, where are they now to defend this? I'm all down for challenging content. It's not new in MMOs to have fields full of dangerous enemies or camps with an X faction camping in them which is extremely difficult to go through. Either because these are "elite monsters" or whatever reason, I do recall a lot of MMOs I've played where I literally asked people to help me complete X quest because it was too dangerous to go alone (Even with an old man giving me a sword when I was level 1). What's the big deal? I just don't get it.

Also I REALLY don't know and I truly want to know why some people are so anti-social in an MMO environment, since the interaction with other people is the key element that defines the genre. If it's the player's choice to be alone, well, when he picked that option, he also decided to join an MMO where you must absolutely expect some multiplayer content. If you don't like it, go back a few stepy and check if you've made the right choice.

[Potchi]

I honestly agree with the OP 100%. I think there is a great divide and it stands between the I want it now people and the people who want to play the game to enjoy the journey. The thing is... How selfish can people be? 95% of this game is completely unthreatening content as is. And the world is 100% unthreatening. So those who want their stuff now can still have it. Why is it so bad for SE to try to cater to those of us who do want the journey as well. Like someone who posted before me said, those who want to burn through the world are going to find themselves standing in a crown prob in is hard just waiting for DFers and PFers anyways, so what is so wrong with them giving the other group of players what they are looking for too. SE is trying to appease two very different group dynamics.

Also to keep in mind, I HIGHLY doubt the areas will become irrelevant. Like someone said before me. FATEs are a huge indicator of this. How many of us had to spend hours on in central shroud doing fates for our atma...? Lol...

What it comes down to though is the fact that there is a great divide between the players who want the destination and those who want the journey. I will say this right now. There is nothing wrong with wanting either, it doesnt make anyone old fashioned or inferior and treat someone as such because of what they desire more is stupidity and arrogance. What I would ask of those that want the destination more though to really evaluate if the idea of socializing for a small portion of content is going to be so crippling to them that it will force them to leave the game? Is it something you can tolerate knowing that there are people who truely want this in the game and they will love having it? It's just fact that right now the game is highly tipped in the destination seekers favor? Is it truely wrong for SE to tip the scales a bit to make it a bit more balanced or is this truely intolerable to you?