A Different Way to Play

[Gamer3427]

TL;DR at the bottom....

I'm curious as to whether there is anyone else like me out there amongst all the servers. In other words, I'm curious as to whether anyone else out there purposefully plays without using a job crystal....

Now, I don't mean people who take off their job crystal just to troll or for brief role playing purposes, or people who simply managed to make it to late game without learning about the existence of job crystals, (yes, I have heard stories of a couple). I mean people who play the game with the same goals as everyone else, but without using a job....

So far, I've been the only person that I've heard of as doing this, but my experience is based with a very limited number of people, on my server and data center alone, so I'm just wondering if I am truly the only player who does so across all the servers....

DEFENSE OF THE CONCEPT

Before I get people saying that "no, of course not, that's stupid and you can't do it", I will like to point out that while I have yet to attempt Behamut, I do run WoD and other dungeons on a daily basis, and more often than not get at least one commendation at the end despite my role as a DPS, (which often don't get a commendation to begin with unless the tanks/healers are terrible). The only reason I haven't attempted Behamut yet is because I'm still trying to get some more gear and upgraded weathered gear from running WoD and ST, as my current iLevel is only 107....

I play as an Arcanist using Topaz Carbuncle, (mine whom I've affectionately named Azzolmi, and she has been a great aid at times). I particularly try for more of a "support/DPS" hybrid role when playing, spending time focusing on healing, buffing, debuffing, and reviving as necessary, with a primary focus on DPS when the others aren't necessary. After passing "mid level" content, (ie: 30-49 level dungeons and trials), I've found that less people are outright rude because of my role, and more are simply curious, or as often as not, choose to turn Azzolmi and myself as something of a mascot for the run. My friends that I play with have come to fully support my play style to the point that they often take more offense to people questioning my methods than I do. In terms of DPS, should I have a situation that requires it, I can focus purely on it and match or even surpass many DF players I have played along side, not necessarily for the entire duration of the fight, but for at least long enough to deal with DPS checks on certain mechanics. In short, with the way I play it, it is in fact possible, and I do make it work. I'm considering writing a guide of sorts to my play style, but I may choose to wait until after Heavensward to see how it may change things slightly.....

END THE DEFENSIVENESS

If you have off topic questions or comments, please try to be civil, and remember, "Cuique Suum"....

TL;DR - Is there anyone out there besides me who legitimately plays without a job crystal?

(Minor note in regards to my formatting. Yes, I am aware that I probably use too many commas, and no, I don't mean anything by all the "....." at end of my paragraphs. The ellipses are simply a signature I picked up a long time ago.....)

[RiceisNice]

...

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There's no "support" associated with arcanist or even using a topaz/titan in most circumstances. You're fighting with the tank for aggro, which can shift enemy positionals.
>The "Support" aspect is not exclusive to arcanist, and is done equally by any competent scholar or even summoner. I really have a hard time understanding what you mean by this, unless you're talkinga bout virus and eye for an eye (which again, are not exclusive to just arcanist)
>If you try to take up healing, chances are it's not very much since physic is quite literally the only healing spell you'd have as an arcanist. Unless the tank is severely overgeared, your heals would barely catch up with anything, though honestly there's a big problem if it comes to relying on arcanist heals in a typical party setup.

You mention you do all of this in WoD. At this point in the game, I usually see people who slack or straight up troll in WoD by crossing provoke, auto-attack afk, or w/e. The way i see it though? If you're playing as an arcanist, you're straight up lowering your overall damage output (which is what you're queuing as, a damage dealer) by foreging abilties like fester and overall lower pet potencies with a topaz, your heals won't ever break 800 to clutch anything.

In the end, it really does not have a place in end game content even if you do get the gear level. You'd only end up holding back your entire party because your dps has a very very low celling as an arcanist, and problems can arise with a topaz/titan egi fighting for aggro on adds or bahamut himself (on top of the lost damage/contagion). It'll also bother some players if you're the one that's slowing down the party in a farm or expert dungeon by anywhere from 3-10 minutes per clear.

For general play with friends? Go nuts. That's probably what the low level content was for anyway. It's so incredibly loose that a THM crossing physic can easily keep the entire party up, and dps can spam their 1 aibltiy and not slow the entire dungeon by 10+ minutes

[Tint]

i played a while as lancer with crosskills from bard. critbuff, another dmg cooldown... but it i spent more time buffing myself than actually dpsing, so i got my jobcrystal xD rogue seems able to use that crosskill thing a bit better. critbuff and 2 dmg cooldowns from bard, plus skills from warrior...
the best class for not using a jobcrystal seems to be the archer, because he only loses his songs and one attack. so you can play him with crosskills as a pure dps class... but yeah... what crosskills? he already has monk and dragoon skills... so you can use virus, eye for an eye, that tp regen from ninja, okay. you can change some support skills against some other xD

and in the end are all classes weaker than jobs. and there are no new skills for classes in 3.0, only jobskills

[Gunspec]

It depends on the class, but you're mostly going to be missing out on important skills. I've had marauders and gladiators show up in level 35+ dungeons, and without their defensive and enmity abilities, it's practically hopeless. Of course, those players typically don't know about jobs in the first place, so the job crystal isn't the only thing causing trouble.

Archers can get away with it if there isn't much need for AOE or singing, conjurers can handle easy content since they only lack regen and shroud of saints, and I might be mistaken but I think most of a thaumaturge rotation comes from level rather than job quest.

The downside is that you will simply be missing key abilities for every class that improve your role effectiveness 20% or more. That's probably why people look at you poorly. You sacrifice targeted effectiveness for RP value, and in random groups that simply want quick completion, that doesn't make a lot of smiles.

[Cynfael]

Snip

Basically, while it can seem fun to do something that not many other people do, in this case there are very good reasons why it isn't done. As Rice said, there is nothing a Jobless ACN can do that a SCH or SMN cannot do better while still retaining essentially the same utility (a SCH in particular is a far better support DPS than a base ACN).

It bears mentioning again that popping out Topaz Carbuncle (or Titan) in group content is almost always a bad idea; when it's discovered to be useful, SE hotfixes it. Fighting tanks for aggro is no bueno, and so is needlessly nerfing your personal DPS when you are in a DPS role.

Points for creativity, but no, this really doesn't work well.

[RiceisNice]

It depends on the class....

The only class that can truly get away with it is marauder for burst damage. Archer has no reason too; They have no cross skills to make up for the DEX loss, and foe requiem is just too good to give up.

Having B4B doesn't make up for much either for THM at the loss of soul crystal stats and flare. ... Unless there's some god-forsaken reason you need to take provoke.

[Gamer3427]

Words.

When I'm talking about support, I'm talking about helping out with cross classed skills like Stoneskin and protect, (for people who get revived), mid battle since the actual healers are focused on actually, you know, healing. And as for healing, I'm certainly not trying to work as a full healer during the fights. I mean that I use my heals to back up the healers if the party takes a large hit and they're low on MP, if the tank is taking damage nearly as fast as they can heal, or if they're coming back from a revive and need a few seconds to catch up. It works more as an emergency assisted heal to keep things a bit calmer and less stressful....

As for damage, yes, you are correct in that I do in fact do slightly less damage than I would as a full SMN using skills like fester. I do however have more access to a variety of skills that means I'm not restricted to pure DPS, in part due to having 10 cross class slots as well as having access to skills from more than simply two classes. As I said however, I can in fact reach strong DPS should I need to or choose to.....

As for my choice of Topaz, that's for two simple reasons. It doesn't die everytime a couple of AoEs get thrown my way, and it serves as an emergency back up should the tanks prove incompetent, suddenly DC, or get killed for some mysterious reason. If a tank is even halfway competent then they don't have to worry about Topaz stealing aggro. If they're not, then she serves as a buffer between me and everyone else while we're trying to fix the problem. Between stoneskin, Physic, and Sustain, I can keep her alive against most bosses for quite some time if necessary. (A recent run of ST where all the tanks decided the adds were more important than the boss comes to mind).....

Again though, I know most people see this as an "ineffective" way to play, but I make it work. If I didn't, I'd be getting kicked from every dungeon instead of getting commendations. In the end though, I'm just curious as to whether I truly am the only one who's found a way to make it work, or if there's other players out there people have heard of.....

EDIT: I'm by no means suggesting that players should necessarily choose to forgo a job crystal, just that it is in effect possible to do so, and do so effectively, even if it doesn't fit in with the traditional "Three Role System"......

[SDaemon]

Unless there's some god-forsaken reason you need to take provoke.

If the Crystal Tower series has shown us anything about this community, it is that we love a good provoke war!! Ψ(｀∀´#)ﾉ

[RiceisNice]

When I'm talking about support, I'm talking about helping out with cross classed skills like Stoneskin and protect, (for people who get revived),

A Scholar can do this and still be more effective at dps than an arcanist because of cleric stance.

And as for healing, I'm certainly not trying to work as a full healer during the fights. I mean that I use my heals to back up the healers if the party takes a large hit and they're low on MP, if the tank is taking damage nearly as fast as they can heal....

This is where "you have bigger issues" comes in. It should never get to the point that a healer needs help healing in single content. Either they can or they can't; you are are either babysitting them too much (and sacrificing your own performance to do so) Alot of healing in low level dungeons is mostly reactive (esp for healers who are toggling cleric stance) and people can typically get it back up anyway.

As for damage, yes, you are correct in that I do in fact do slightly less damage than I would as a full SMN using skills like fester. I do however have more access to a variety of skills that means I'm not restricted to pure DPS, in part due to having 10 cross class slots as well as having access to skills from more than simply two classes. As I said however, I can in fact reach strong DPS should I need to or choose to.....

The five extra cross skills get you nothing as far as dps though. You have blood for blood, which nowhere makes up the damage lost from soulstone, mercy stroke runs off physical stats, and I really can't think of any other cross skills you can actually use beyond the conjurer/archer/THM cross.

As for my choice of Topaz, that's for two simple reasons. It doesn't die everytime a couple of AoEs get thrown my way, and it serves as an emergency back up should the tanks prove incompetent, suddenly DC, or get killed for some mysterious reason. If a tank is even halfway competent then they don't have to worry about Topaz stealing aggro. If they're not, then she serves as a buffer between me and everyone else while we're trying to fix the problem. Between stoneskin, Physic, and Sustain, I can keep her alive against most bosses for quite some time if necessary. (A recent run of ST where all the tanks decided the adds were more important than the boss comes to mind).....

I can't word this any other way. Honestly, if your pet is dying, that's on your own fault for not managing their positions. Pets only really die from non-telegraphed cleaves, that is, standing in front of the boss more often than not. And this is only accountable for dungeons like ST...anywhere else like Coil and this is essentially a wipe for the party.

Again though, I know most people see this as an "ineffective" way to play, but I make it work. If I didn't, I'd be getting kicked from every dungeon instead of getting commendations. In the end though, I'm just curious as to whether I truly am the only one who's found a way to make it work, or if there's other players out there people have heard of.....

There is an assortment of players out there. You even mentioned it that you've gotten some hostile reactions when it came to ST or mid-high level dungeons. That's where the issues from playing as an ACN and using a topaz start appearing, and it just gets a lot more evident when you try to do coil.

And honestly, I could be the ncieest person to talk to but slow down teh dungeon because I'm causing wipes, people would commend me for being sociable. What I'm saying is, commends =/= playing well or being effective, esp when people just give commends like hotcakes to tanks and healers.

[Gunspec]

The only class that can truly get away with it is marauder for burst damage. Archer has no reason too; They have no cross skills to make up for the DEX loss, and foe requiem is just too good to give up.

Having B4B doesn't make up for much either for THM at the loss of soul crystal stats and flare. ... Unless there's some god-forsaken reason you need to take provoke.

When I say, "depends on class", I mean for just average drivel 4-man content. Everyone has something from class quests that helps them, and they will all lose efficiency (especially at level 50) without the crystal. The only time I would PAY to get rid of the crystal is when I queue for random low level, and I get stuck in a 15-20 dungeon with no cross class skills. TP wasting 2-hit combos, no cooldowns, few dots, so boring.