The Rejoining (Spoilers for EVERYTHING up to 2.55, welcome to Lore)

[Fenral]

Dragging a quote from Moose over this way, since I think it's high time for a lively discussion of high-fantasy metaphysics.

I always come back to this fringe theory I had that Hydaelyn is not actually whole - that she lay in pieces to create our world and only in that form does reality exist. Hence is the Mothercrystal we see in visions "all made one." In this case, The Rejoining would be an attempt to "delete" this dimension by compressing the Crystal back together. I've been toying with the idea that perhaps Zodiark was a being created in a past world, but (a la the connections to Zodiark of Ivalice) was deemed too powerful, cast away, and the crystal rejoined and reshattered to create a new existence. The theory needs some work, but it explains pretty much everything. Of course, as I always say, when you have so few puzzle pieces, many different ideas of a "big picture" can account for all of them.

I suspected something a little different, and still do, though the "World of Darkness" arc having little in the way to do with much of anything on the table has, perhaps, weakened this position somewhat. I imagine that Hydaelyn is the world of "light" split off from some original dualistic world by some being/beings (the Twelve?) powerful enough to alter reality itself to suit their ideals, and that what they left behind was the world of "dark." Perhaps the "void" the Allagans called the "World of Darkness" is, in fact, the space between these two worlds.

We know that some of the Ascians are of "our" world, but that in turn can be taken to mean that some aren't. There may be another world out there, not unlike our own, that exists as a separate "layer" with the same surface area, but different geography. Is that world Zodiark? Is it dying and/or dead? Is recombination with Hydaelyn the way for that world, or both worlds, to be saved? "Rejoining" two geographically distinct worlds will, of course, have "calamitous" repercussions in the short term, but is perhaps necessary for both of them, for reasons known at least to Eldibus (and now Urianger, perhaps). It may be that the alterations to the landscape after each Calamity are, in truth, pieces of that other world being merged onto our own.

I wonder if it was really Ultima used on the Isle of Val, and not simply a large-scale X-Zone-type spell. ("Banish" appears to be a fluid-like damage spell in XIV, so I'll use the old name for the classic "send object elsewhere without passing 'Go' and collecting $200.") Perhaps having the Students turn out to be alive on that "other" world would be too "easy" a direction to go with that storyline, but our current perspective is rather appallingly limited.

The necessity of light and darkness staying in balance for the world to survive would also be almost too easy a punchline, but we already had hints towards a sort of "flood of light" in the years leading up to the Fourth Umbral Era (rather, one hint I desperately and irrationally cling to), and another resulting from the overuse of White and Black Magic. If the Ascians were involved in all of the Calamities, they may have some greater reason to keep the light from shining too brightly. I wonder sometimes if we have it all backwards, and the light is, or at least was, winning overwhelmingly and moving towards decisive victory in a field of battle we still lack the viewpoint to see.

But we lack so much information that none of us can really guess correctly, so I'm also curious what the other folks around here can come up with.

[WyrahFhurrst]

I guess if we're starting this conversation, I'll toss in my two bits. What Zodiark seems to me is more like the Greek protogenoi Chaos, the great churning primordial entity that the whole of creation came from. Hydaelyn would therefore be more like Gaia. Everyone on Hydaelyn simply went on with their lives enjoying Hydaelyn's life and Zodiark was either met by some sorcerers who entered his in-between dimension from which he created the XIV universe, or he called out to them. Either way, they became his Ascians.

Therefore, the Ascians want to return the world to its primordial origins. First by destabilizing the aether of Hydaelyn, then through a great calamity that would somehow destabilize the aether of the world so much that it changes in its essence and everyone upon it (back?) to one of Chaos (Zodiark).

[Anonymoose]

I imagine that Hydaelyn is the world of "light" split off from some original dualistic world by some being/beings (the Twelve?) powerful enough to alter reality itself to suit their ideals, and that what they left behind was the world of "dark." Perhaps the "void" the Allagans called the "World of Darkness" is, in fact, the space between these two worlds.

This is also a possibility; Dualism was one of the first paths I took after seeing the "Dark Crystal" and believing there was a good chance it was a growing Zodiark (though we never really got any conclusive evidence). I thought of lots of theories as equals, at first, but Dualism started to fall out of favor with me when The World of Darkness and The Void became synonymous. The Void is spoken of as if it's far larger than the "World of Light." To use real-world science very, very, very loosely, I've started to see the "World of Light" as the physical matter that results from energy, and the Void as the source of all that energy. It makes it much harder to see a Dualistic balance, and easier to see a desperate fight for the Crystal's will to not go silent in the sea of oblivion. "Your planet is alone - one star in the void." // "In darkness, the crystal dreams."

We know that some of the Ascians are of "our" world, but that in turn can be taken to mean that some aren't.

This is a major source of my confusion. You'll notice that Elidibus and Lahabrea, the two from "our world," are the only two who've spoken of returning things to the way they once were. Nabriales, part of the other set, couldn't wait for Darkness to simply consume all. How these goals can both lead to Zodiark is where I think an important answer lies.

If the Ascians were involved in all of the Calamities, they may have some greater reason to keep the light from shining too brightly. I wonder sometimes if we have it all backwards, and the light is, or at least was, winning overwhelmingly and moving towards decisive victory in a field of battle we still lack the viewpoint to see.

I think this is what we're meant to question - did the Light overstep its bounds? Elidibus filled us with doubt in Patch 2.1... The difference between the origins of the transmigratory ascians and originals is something we need to know more about to understand anything.

<Gaia and Chaos>

I like when everything fits with both Final Fantasy and XIV's origins in Greek Mythology, so I think at least some of this must be at least somewhat on the right track.

[Hestern_Nestern]

Forgive the lazy structure of my input, but regarding the Rejoining, I've been suspecting (mayhap hoping) that this is all very Final Fantasy IX. The Rejoining being literal. You kind of touch a bit on that possibility in your post. I just noticed a distinct lack of Final Fantasy IX allusions in this game and was curious if that was because the allusion was just being missed. Heavy bias here, though, as FFIX is my favorite FF game.

I'll be following this thread closely.

[Nalien]

Ever since T5 I have had the opinion that Hydaelyn is, effectively, just a really really big Primal. The Mother Crystal we (used to) communicate with? Hydaelyn Prime. The planet? A Primal large enough to have ecosystems growing on it, all life on it technically a part of it. Primals? Effectively cancerous tumors.

Zodiark, then, I would imagine is much the same. Except dead. The Ascians are attempting to sacrifice our planet to have theirs reborn. Whatever insane scenario lead to the death of Zodiark gave birth to Hydaelyn (or perhaps something else which eventually gave birth to Hydaelyn), however a fraction of their world was saved, hence the Rejoining; The Aether which makes up Hydaelyn was originally Zodiark. To restore their world is to rejoin it with "his" Aether.

Ready for this to get crazy? I'm certainly tired enough for a little crazy; Zodiark is Final Fantasy XII, or close enough. All the Ivalice connections with the Ascians a result of that. The original Final Fantasy gave us a never ending cycle to break. When we defeated Chaos, that world was free of Garlands' cycle and free to advance into the future. That future lead to that worlds death, but the birth of Final Fantasy IIs world. The "aether" which made up Final Fantasy was recycled to create Final Fantasy II, and so on for every "main" game in the franchise. Each game has no direct link, but they're all part of the same canon. Final Fantasy XIIs world eventually died, it's "aether" then going on to create Final Fantasy XIII, but something of Final Fantasy XII left this cycle, surviving outside it. Final Fantasy XIII suffered as a result, as it received less "aether" than the previous titles. Final Fantasy XIV also suffered due to this, hence its initial release. What caused Final Fantasy XIV to pick itself back up and become a huge success? Oh right, the Ascians Rejoining attempt. Long lost "aether" attempting to be rejoined to the main franchise... Are the Ascians evil? Not at all. They're the key Final Fantasy element many had complained has been missing from the franchise in recent years. Ironic, given their Final Fantasy XII connections. Obviously we shouldn't let them recreate Final Fantasy XII (Oh hell no, we should totally be letting them make a Final Fantasy XII HD rerelease!), but we should certainly try to get that "aether" back! Currently Hydaelyn is losing the battle and weakening as the Ascians look set to succeed at using Hydaelyn to rebuild Zodiark, through the course of Final Fantasy XIV I imagine we'll be gradually turning the tables on them and instead having Hydaelyn absorb Zodiark to make the franchise whole again, so the next world can be a success when this one eventually dies.

<Looks at Final Fantasy XV>

Well, we tried... I kid of course, I hope...

[WyrahFhurrst]

*snippet*

A good theory as any, except that XII's world and XI's worlds exist simultaneously to XIV. Evidence being Lightning and Shantotto visiting us. Another, more concrete reasoning would be that it's already been explicitly stated that XIV's world is its own. This of course only discounts your last paragraph, not the first two. You could be entirely right about the planet being a primal.

An idea that could help that along would be that Hydaelyn was a regular primal on the planet Zodiark, and existed for long enough that she absorbed all of the aether of the planet and eventually became the planet itself. And the Ascians are just people who escaped the aether-absorption and are trying to turn things back to the way things used to be, "rejoining" Hydaelyn's aether back to the original world, Zodiark. Yeah, that's probably a crazy idea...

[Nalien]

A good theory as any, except that XII's world and XI's worlds exist simultaneously to XIV. Evidence being Lightning and Shantotto visiting us.

Do we really know that they exist simultaneously? What if, rather than dimensional travel being the explanation for characters like Greg, time travel is instead...

[Dualblade]

One thing to note is that The Void is not only in multiple Final Fantasy games, but also one of the few things that is ALWAYS the same across games. As well this is how Gilgamesh is able to get everywhere, inculding XIV. Also the (very stronge) possibility that Cloud of Darkness is the exact same one from III. So most likely there isn't an actually duality there, though a connection of course can't be ruled out. Wouldn't be the first time a villian has tried to cast everything back into The Void.

My own personal theory is that Hydaelyn and Zodiark are seperate beings, and not even neccessarily antagonistic to each other...more so since it seems one of Zodiark's "strongest" has his own plans that may actually be detrimental to it. As well...the Zodiark of XII was child sealed away because the Occurians realized he would become more powerful than themselves...maybe here too, he is sealed?

[Kaiser-Ace]

snip

Well, the first paragraph is linking back to my "Great Multiverse" theory. One which is well ingrained in FF fans' minds and all I've really done is compile and link most of it.

As for the second (Specifically that last part in relation to FF12) Is it actually possible by that logic that The Twelve actually locked up Zodiark for some reason and the 1st Umbral Era was cased by man's retaliation Thus causing the 1st Umbral era's Mysterious War that allegedly made the Twelve leave Hydaelyn? (There I go with my "Ascians being the 1st warriors of Light" idea again)

[Fenral]

I just noticed a distinct lack of Final Fantasy IX allusions in this game and was curious if that was because the allusion was just being missed. Heavy bias here, though, as FFIX is my favorite FF game.

Watch through the CT scenes again while keeping Zidane in Esto Gaza (and Bran Bal) in the back of your mind, and something pretty interesting (and tragic) happens. Probably just an accident, but I wonder if any subverted FFIX references in XIV may later prove to not be subversions after all.

This is also a possibility; Dualism was one of the first paths I took after seeing the "Dark Crystal" and believing there was a good chance it was a growing Zodiark (though we never really got any conclusive evidence). I thought of lots of theories as equals, at first, but Dualism started to fall out of favor with me when The World of Darkness and The Void became synonymous.

I wonder, though. It seems just as likely to me that the Allagans were aware of a "world of darkness," but simply decided that the first dark and spooky otherworld they poked their curious heads into was it.

It makes it much harder to see a Dualistic balance, and easier to see a desperate fight for the Crystal's will to not go silent in the sea of oblivion. "Your planet is alone - one star in the void." // "In darkness, the crystal dreams."

And yet Eldibus seems to think we can reconcile our differences. While absolute denial of self for a perceived greater good is, apparently, always and unquestionably the right choice in the XIV-verse, I somehow doubt he wants to convince us to simply roll over and die for the sake of the true world. He thinks we can work together, and possibly even stop the more radical Ascian plots for the sake of a path that greater benefits both sides.

I think this is what we're meant to question - did the Light overstep its bounds? Elidibus filled us with doubt in Patch 2.1... The difference between the origins of the transmigratory ascians and originals is something we need to know more about to understand anything.

Never enough info. Ever.

And of course more posts happened while I was writing this. I think, if this whole thing ends in any way, it will be the mother sacrificing herself for her children, and not the other way around. Personally, I'm sick of everyone around me sacrificing themselves in various irreversible ways for "good," "light," "hope," and so on, if only because it's a very easy virtue to commend when you know you inevitably will never have to do it yourself.