Never thought I would see dps queues faster then healer.

[Mutemutt]

[B][COLOR="black"]*snip*

Knowing the boss like the palm of your hand isn't very hard to do when it repeats the same pattern of a few moves so often. Plus, the healer dps kit is extremely simple to actually execute by itself. When it comes down to it, the whole fight feels like an abstract rotation of sorts for healing, the only difference being the timers between all the important bits are relatively long compared to the dps role rotation.

And, to be honest, I thought earthshaker was a much bigger nuisance to place and not die in the sludge than healing it was.

On the other hand, the dps classes I've played require me to constantly juggle that more complicated dps rotation while also handling mechanics. It may not wipe the party outright, but I find it's much easier to trip up here and there on the dps and watch your numbers get nickel-and-dime'd than to mess up healing the same pattern for the 12th or so time.

[ZeratoTyrael]

As far as the main topic "Never thought I would see dps queues faster then healer." There's too many reasons and variables for anyone to give an exact reasoning without mind reading the people queueing up. Could be people leveling/gearing jobs in preparation for the expansion, people wanting to do something on an alt job, or any number of hundreds of thousands of reasons.


Now onto this bickering: This is a common case of "My job/role is so much harder than yours!". Listen, everyone's job in this game is to "Do your role, while executing mechanics properly". First I want to dismiss any arguments complaining about roles outside of coil.....EVERYONE has it easy outside of coil. Even when in coil, no one truly has it harder than anyone else.... you should know your job/role well enough that it has become second nature to you and all you should be worrying about is mechanics. Now, if you want to argue about fights mechanics it's still not worth arguing over.... there's different fight mechanics for each fight for a reason. Some fights may be "harder" for your role and easier for the others...so? Another fight will be easier for you while it may push more responsibility on other roles....that's called good game design and balance, lest every fight be the exact same thing.

Completely offtopic but: All I've seen on the forums lately is people wanting to pick fights with others....for no good reason. State your opinion, explain your reasons, maybe throw in a rebuttal or 2 and move on. Personal attacks are completely unjustified in this environment and come across as judgmental and crass. None of us knows anything about anyone else. Not saying everyone has to hold hands and sing kumbaya, but at least be respectful.

[Cynfael]

I suppose we'll all have our own experiences and opinions.

Personally I still find that DPS generally have far less to be concerned with since they can mostly ignore mechanics that don't directly affect them. Granted, there are many players who aren't terribly skilled at DPS to begin with, but hitting DPS rotations isn't any more challenging than anticipating the healing required for upcoming mechanics; in fact it's usually easier since what other players do won't as frequently affect what you need to do. When you're healing, your best laid plans can go out the window if one or more people in the party deviate from the expected routine (usually meaning "screw it up").

Speaking of healer DPS, as SCH I feel like striving to push DPS as high as I can while still meeting healing requirements can be a fun mini-game that requires a bit more of my attention than DPSing only during the obvious lulls.

[Sebazy]

or change the system to never pair scholar together please.

Sorry where was I? Oh hey, it's the ERP troll again.

You're forgetting that the other big difference between trolls such as yourself and properly experienced raid healers (Like your ERP buddies right?) is the ability to adapt and refine on the fly to the situation at hand. Raids may well be a game of whackamole when everyone is geared and executes the encounters flawlessly. But we both know that's rarely the case outside of an experienced static and never the case during progression.

The fact that you consider tanking to be difficult kind of confirms that you are either a troll or just plain dim. Shiva Extreme is harder to tank than most fcob stuff tbh.

I'll agree that DPSing isn't as easy as many people say though, but it's a very different challenge to healing, it boils down to being able to commit your rotations to muscle memory so you can focus on doing mechanics properly. It's more intense than healing, but rarely as dynamic. Of course, you're forgetting the little detail that if a DPS makes a proper mistake in fcob, they get raised, if a healer makes a proper mistake chances are it's going to cause a wipe.

[Gallus]

Plus, the healer dps kit is extremely simple to actually

Let me introduce you to my simple SCH kit for T13 (and for all else really, I like tryharding anywhere):

Adloquium, Succor, Physick, Lustrate, Aetherflow, Ressurrection, Eye for an eye, Sacred Soil, Swiftcast, Fey Illumination, Fey Covenant, Rouse, Whispering Dawn, Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Aero, Ruin II, Shadow Flare, Cleric Stance, Bane, Energy Drain, Virus, Place, Heel, Embrace, Leeches, Stoneskin.

"Oh but most of these things aren't needed..." yes they are when playing your job optimally. Gigaflare? Fey Covenant + Virus + Sacred Soil + (if you want to use it here) + Succor on party + Whispering Dawn shortly after (and Rouse if you want). Someone with weakness? Adloquium. Akh Morns? Virus if up/Fey Illumination, Eye for an Eye on your designed tank. Megaflare Dive? Succor on party, Whispering Dawn, Sacred Soil. Downtime or safe gap? Cleric Stance, Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Aero, Shadow Flare. Why Place and Heel? Because you want to be in a certain position in most parts of the fight, but you don't want your fairy to be sitting with you because it won't reach most people unless you move her (and if she moves she is missing on embrace casts). Ressurrection? Probably the spell I use most lol. Dots on a gust + Bane to both sins? Again, that's called playing optimally. Low on mana because you've rezzed 5 people and overhealed like a monkey? You may want to use a few Energy Drains. Failed tempest wing? Leeches on that poor monk. The only spells that are extremely situational on that list are: Stoneskin, Leeches. You may see yourself not ever casting them in certain fights. The rest? Always, anywhere.
You have a very very strange misconception of what it means to play a healing class optimally.

Now, playing whack a mole healer? That's easy yes. Physick spam + the occasional adloquium (to pretend you are doing something different even if the adlo is entirely not necessary there) + the occasional succor...+...nothing? Yeah you can still kill bosses playing like that, just like you can kill them with a BRD not using bloodletter ever, or a MNK not even having blood for blood cross classed, or a PLD not ever switching to sword oath when they are OTing because they are...tanks!

[DarkmoonVael]

Let me introduce you to my simple SCH kit for T13 (and for all else really, I like tryharding anywhere):

Adloquium, Succor, Physick, Lustrate, Aetherflow, Ressurrection, Eye for an eye, Sacred Soil, Swiftcast, Fey Illumination, Fey Covenant, Rouse, Whispering Dawn, Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Aero, Ruin II, Shadow Flare, Cleric Stance, Bane, Energy Drain, Virus, Place, Heel, Embrace, Leeches, Stoneskin.

"Oh but most of these things aren't needed..." yes they are when playing your job optimally. Gigaflare? Fey Covenant + Virus + Sacred Soil + (if you want to use it here) + Succor on party + Whispering Dawn shortly after (and Rouse if you want). Someone with weakness? Adloquium. Akh Morns? Virus if up/Fey Illumination, Eye for an Eye on your designed tank. Megaflare Dive? Succor on party, Whispering Dawn, Sacred Soil. Downtime or safe gap? Cleric Stance, Bio II, Miasma, Bio, Aero, Shadow Flare. Why Place and Heel? Because you want to be in a certain position in most parts of the fight, but you don't want your fairy to be sitting with you because it won't reach most people unless you move her (and if she moves she is missing on embrace casts). Ressurrection? Probably the spell I use most lol. Dots on a gust + Bane to both sins? Again, that's called playing optimally. Low on mana because you've rezzed 5 people and overhealed like a monkey? You may want to use a few Energy Drains. Failed tempest wing? Leeches on that poor monk. The only spells that are extremely situational on that list are: Stoneskin, Leeches. You may see yourself not ever casting them in certain fights. The rest? Always, anywhere.
You have a very very strange misconception of what it means to play a healing class optimally.

Now, playing whack a mole healer? That's easy yes. Physick spam + the occasional adloquium (to pretend you are doing something different even if the adlo is entirely not necessary there) + the occasional succor...+...nothing? Yeah you can still kill bosses playing like that, just like you can kill them with a BRD not using bloodletter ever, or a MNK not even having blood for blood cross classed, or a PLD not ever switching to sword oath when they are OTing because they are...tanks!

I am so glad you posted this as i was just about to do something similar. . Sch in coils is a healer and dps, which makes it complicated say the least.

Also another very pertinent point, as a healer you are dealing with all the mechanic everyone else deals with in one form or another as well as making up for everyones mistakes. This by no means is a criticism of those that you raid with as a healer, but an acknowledgment that when learning new content, mistakes are always made.

Healers also enable other to do things that they technically shouldnt be able to, like tanks MT'ing in the "wrong" stance (i.e. Sword Oath, Defiance off).

[Galdous]

Considering how easy healing is it's no wonder se decided to require healers to also dps in the upcoming alexander raids.

[Raminax]

How in the world do people keep circulating the statement that Healers are required to do DPS in Heavensward? Is reading an extinct ability nowadays? Here, I'll highlight the important bits from the relevant interview:

Yoshida: Yes. Since all DPS jobs will be increasing up through level 60, it makes sense to have the white mage's DPS extend by a proportional amount as well. For development, such as with Bahamut's Coils, the development team assumes what the item level should be for general equipment on players when they clear a raid. They sum up the basic DPS for four DPS and tanks at that assumed item level and cut that by about 10-15% for the minimum clear DPS. Healer DPS is not taken into account when this is set.

Certainly for people who are at world's first level, their goal is to clear it at as low an item level as possible, lower than the one assumed during development. So if you look at the fight and figure out that if it's not numerically possible to clear with four DPS and tanks, you'll need to make up the gap with DPS from healers. Then when those publish clear videos and other people see the healers DPSing, they might think that healers need to be DPSing even though its a situation that only arose because their clear would have otherwise been impossible. While we could take this into account, and assume a different item level in the next update which would then make it impossible to clear even with the healer DPS, we'd eliminate this type of play for highly skilled players who use communication, items, and a high level of understanding to come up with those last second clears. That would be a tough decision to make, so I still think it should be up to each party's own plans.

This is also one of the reasons we decided to implement both a normal and savage version of Alexander. Once again, healer DPS was not included in the development team's calculation as it was for other jobs, so you should just think of healer DPS as a last way to get your overall party's DPS up to where it needs to be.

So, yes. Healer DPS will not be required to complete Alexander, unless you're doing it severely undergeared. At that point healer DPS might be the only way to add enough damage to actually defeat the boss in question.

I'm also impressed such an innocuous thread could turn into a mudslinging contest.

[ZeratoTyrael]

How in the world do people keep circulating the statement that Healers are required to do DPS in Heavensward? Is reading an extinct ability nowadays? Here, I'll highlight the important bits from the relevant interview:




So, yes. Healer DPS will not be required to complete Alexander, unless you're doing it severely undergeared. At that point healer DPS might be the only way to add enough damage to actually defeat the boss in question.

I'm also impressed such an innocuous thread could turn into a mudslinging contest.

I really think people are just too LAZY to read and comprehend information in front of them. Even when you point out things out, they just refuse to grasp the information unless it's given to them in a cliff notes version using elementary school language which is truly sad. Forums are THE place where a decent reading comprehension would be ideal, but apparently there are so many trolls and people that just can't comprehend shiite, that it's hard to tell them apart. I still don't get how someone operating a PC or smartphone can be so lazy to not even read a few lines of text. These are the same people that don't read how return policies work or don't understand why they just a ticket from a cop for a law that's been around since cars existed.

[Cynfael]

I'm also impressed such an innocuous thread could turn into a mudslinging contest.

Most threads on this forum turn into mudslinging contests; we healers are right up there with tanks as the biggest divas around :P