Dungeons, what we have, what I would like

[Yzuna]

Hey there,

So, I was wondering if the new dungeons in heavensward will be as boring as those we already have ?
I mean, boss pattern can be fun, they are mostly beautiful, but they are way too linears.
While it might be fun the first time (or the few first times) it gets boring very quickly.

Once upon a time, there was MMORPG filled with immersive dungeons (both instanced and not).
difficult, labyrinthine dungeons, with optionnal bosses, secret passages, with groupe/raid quests, sometimes hidden or random.
Mobs used to link with each others, there were patrols, you actually had to watch your step most of the time, gauging the strengh of the mobs, talk with your groups about whether or not you could manage this boss...
The goal wasn't to rush to the end quickly to get your tomestones and forget about it, but to actually have fun in it.

EQ(2) had those king of dungeons, DAoC, FFXI, Aion...Even WoW vanilla had some too (remember Blackrock Depths ?)


Instead in ARR, we get more or less the same instance over and over again :
Couple of pack of mobs > first boss > few more packs > second boss > some more packs > final boss. E-ve-ry-ti-me. And it's too damn linear, always.
I'd rather cap my tomestone with something else (even monster bashing), and get real, fun dungeons instead.


So I guess my question is : Will we get something like that in heavensward ?


(sorry for my english, not my first language. I tried to do my best)

[RylaiBluecrow]

Since FFxiv is the only mmo i've played... indulge me and tell me more about this "fun" idea you've been talking about.

[Yumi_umi]

I want to see some platforming like stuff similar to cliffhanger FATE in GS would be so fun if there was a dungeon that used
"Manual jumping" as a feature.

[GenJoe]

I want to see some platforming like stuff similar to cliffhanger FATE in GS would be so fun if there was a dungeon that used
"Manual jumping" as a feature.

That would be fun.. But I think SE already spoiled the player base with easy dungeons, look back at what happened with steps of faith, I don't think the player base would be very receptive to any dungeon that's not a tank and spank or some memorization of mechanics.

That's not to say tank and spank is bad, I actually like a good tank and spank.. Like the second boss in AV, the cyclops, simple and fun.
I also found DD bosses to be enjoyable, the one with dodgeball, and the final boss in DD was also fun.

What I dislike is the ohko mechanics that make you rely on 7 other people to do their part right and flawlessly.. For a party of 4, it's more doable but the bigger your party becomes, more chances that there will be that one person who's eating lunch or watching tv.. or just plain bad, that's why WoW doesn't have 40men raids anymore, as much fun as AQ40 was, it was the most annoying thing to wipe/disband because 1 person was not pulling their weight or it was past his bedtime.

I hope HW introduces more boss battles that involves constant, UNSCRIPTED movement/positioning and less of the memorization game, or even mix it up a bit.. same order, by same exact intervals? when I do Tex now, I don't feel like I've gotten any better, instead, I feel like I've developed a spider sense.. I just get a feeling "hmmm, I feel like something ought to happen now" and that gives me the cue to get moving, it's just not very fun. T5 was okay but that was also the same repetitive phases over and over.. Which I feel is fine for end-game raids, end-game raids SHOULD require some studying, but for the more casual stuff, just make it tank and spank with positioning requirements, complex mechanics don't make challenging content, just makes an annoying one.

[JimboTCB]

Those all sounds like neat ideas that people would run through once, never bother with again because the effort isn't comparable to the rewards, and then moan like hell until it gets nerfed into oblivion.

[Cakekizy]

Personally, not a fan of those things.

[Umo]

never bother with again because the effort isn't comparable to the rewards

Change rewards, then? o.O

[Shneibel]

and imagine you have to do that daily. Pain in the ass, don't you think ?

Change rewards, then? o.O

how will you change it ?

[Nuinn]

Yes please, because dungeons in FFXIV = Let brain rest while you kill trash mobs because there's forced gates, till you eventually reach a boss with a somewhat challenging mechanic. I've yet to see actual dungeon crawl and exploration happen in ARR.
Occasionally, when doing a dungeon with friends, in a more relaxed party, you'll get to pay attention to all the detail they designers put into it. You'll notice blocked paths that lead nowhere, blank signboards and discarded tomes, curious buildings in the distance... or in other words, a lot of unused potential. If dungeons were made more engaging like the OP suggests, they'd need to scale the rewards accordingly, to make the time spent in them worth it (of course).

and imagine you have to do that daily. Pain in the ass, don't you think ?



how will you change it ?

If the rewards were changed (increased tomestone gain, for example) then perhaps you wouldn't have to do it daily but maybe 2-3 times a week as opposed to 7. They could also add some dungeon specific vanity gear/furniture (or just mats for them as regular chest drops have majorly lame loot as it is), increase drop rates for Relic weapon step, pieces of lore tied to the specific dungeon (where's our lore book/compendium already?) that give further non-game breaking rewards etc.

[Renik]

Actually i do dungeons for clears and to help people, because they are boring, i just don't care about the rewards. Make this kind of dungeon and you won't see me again in my FC house, even if the rewards were just a fraction of the normal dungeons ones, i would still run them.

What we need is simple, a year ago in the E3 i think, Yoshi talked about an idea to implement open world dungeons, making them semi instanced, allowing free entrance until the cap is reached, then the next player or party would go to the next instance, or "channel." they just have to apply this idea to current dungeons making a bigger version of them with more routes, rooms and bosses that could work as forced spawn, a la treasure hunt.