Wait a minute...is this a plot-hole (Austerities of Wind and Main Scenario-related)?

[WyrahFhurrst]

I suspect Ramuh may have memories that aren't his own. The memories he has may simply come from the aetherstream, like inherited memories from the element he represents. I hope we get an explanation on that eventually, because he's not an Elder Primal, but has those memories. Very odd guy, that Ramuh.

[Anonymoose]

I suspect Ramuh may have memories that aren't his own.

I was midway through posting the last thing I said in here when this popped up and I just wanted to poke back in already and say "I'm glad I'm not so crazy as to be the only one." I believe that Ramuh may (might, possibly, potentially, hypothetically) have memories that were imbued into him.

All of the primals have personalities that philosophically represent their element. What is lightning? Patient... calm... silent... and then strikes without warning with merciless dexterity to swiftly annihilate that which is judged to be its target. Lighting is calculating. Lightning is wise. There's a possibility that Ramuh knows many things by nature of the living aether that he was not personally there to witness.

Or, perhaps he was once a living person and read a lot of books about the past and now the soul orb thing we saw in the Striking Tree remembers college pretty well, hells if I know. But he's no Elder, as far as we've been told. That's for sure.

[WyrahFhurrst]

*snippet*

Oh good, I'm not the only one. The only guess I have as to why the other Primals don't mention their older memories is that they don't have them, or they just don't find them important to bring up around us. Both are entirely logical, at least for the elemental Primals. But what about the non-elemental Primals? Does Good King Moggle Mog have older memories, or only the recent ones? And does that lack of elemental memory explain why he's different from the elemental ones? I of course mean his lack of trying to temper us or gather a following beyond his loyal Mog Squad. Perhaps, as a new Primal, he has yet to fully come into his own and discover all of his powers, since he has no element (and older {rimals of that element) to inherit memories from?

[lololink]

That story about elder primals is really weird, if what matters is how long they have been worshipped how come we can consider Odin an elder primal while we don't even know who worshipped him and for how long ?

The only way I could consider Ramuh not being an elder primal would be that while he was here in the first eras he might not have been summon since very recently ( Same way for Mog ). And still we clearly see Titan and Ifrit coming out of the burst of aether and it's only after that the ascians tells them how to summon primals. Unless ascians planned this all along but they don't seem to be the kind of guy to make long plans, they wait for opportunities to weaken Hydaelyn and jump on it whenever it happens, just the same way Nabriales thought he saw an opening and failed.

All primals weren't prevented from being summoned by the seal since one was summoned in Othard, so what was it exactly, that primal matter really need answers... I hope the library of Sharlaya will give us some.


About the elemental behavior I'm not sure, I usually depict lightning as fast and can't stand still, the complete opposite of Ramuh in a way.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Well as far as Ifrit and Titan goes, Ifrit was pissed he couldn't temper us and immediately resorted to killing us, Titan Just plain wanted to kill us, and as for Garuda, well she's just bat shit crazy and tries to kill every thing.

Then there's Levi who was..... Trying to kill us. And shiva who........ was trying to kill us.


Seems like Rahmu was the only primal that actually took any time to talk to us at all. Weird Huh?

[WyrahFhurrst]

That story about elder primals is really weird, if what matters is how long they have been worshipped how come we can consider Odin an elder primal while we don't even know who worshipped him and for how long ?

We may not know who did the worshipping (if there was any worshipping, Odin's a weird Primal overall), but we do know he, like Bahamut, had his origins in or before the Third Astral Era, as he was sealed in the crystal at Urth's Font by the Allagan hero, Urth (no more info on who that is besides that).

[lololink]

Seems like Rahmu was the only primal that actually took any time to talk to us at all. Weird Huh?

That's mainly because he knows we aren't the ennemy, Ixals are in direct war with Gridania, same with Leviathan and Titan for Limsa and Ifrit for Ul'dah, Sylphs have troubles with the empire, of course most of them don't like gridanian too, but their main threat are the garleans, Ramuh knows that, but he doesn't know if mankind as a whole can be worthy of living or not, that's why he challenged us.

We may not know who did the worshipping (if there was any worshipping, Odin's a weird Primal overall), but we do know he, like Bahamut, had his origins in or before the Third Astral Era, as he was sealed in the crystal at Urth's Font by the Allagan hero, Urth (no more info on who that is besides that).

Yes but during 3 astral eras we don't know if he was worshipped, Meracydian was forced to worship Bahamut but that wasn't Odin's case.

edit for below :
Of course ascians have a long term plan, but they don't know everything, Lahabrea was surprised and rejoiced that Bahamut was freed again, they didn't plan all that would happens eras before. A long plan isn't a long term goal.

[Kaiser-Ace]

Unless ascians planned this all along but they don't seem to be the kind of guy to make long plans, they wait for opportunities to weaken Hydaelyn and jump on it whenever it happens, just the same way Nabriales thought he saw an opening and failed.

Uh, the Ascians have been at this since the Third Astral Era and maybe even earlier. One does not simply mess around for 15k+ years and not have a long term goal in mind. The Ascians plan is thousands of years in the making which is what makes it so hard to grasp and escape. As Eldibeus said, if we knew what he did perhaps we'd be able to see eye to eye.

Oh and Nebriales failed because he went off script. Ya know, went rouge, awol, etc, etc. He wasn't following the plan that's been laid out so well and worked on for so long that none can escape it's momentum. So he payed the price for being a maverick. To which Lahabrea was neither surprised nor upset about and Eldibeus was only mildly concerned that we were able to kill the unkillable. But even then it seemed trivial to him and more of a curiosity than a threat or worry.

[axemtitanium]

Ultima Weapon traps the primals and prevents them from being summoned again.

Just wanted to clarify, the Ultima Weapon does NOT prevent primals from being summoned again after eating it. Alphinaud explicitly states that the reason the beast tribes don't summon primals while the Ultima Weapon is still operational is because they're AFRAID that the primals they summon would just get eaten immediately (i.e. a waste of crystals).

[Bfmusashi]

I don't recall the time period for the Summoners original existence, but it was likely while the ability to summon the primals was sealed at Silvertear Falls. I think this is the only seal you can put on them, that they can't be properly summoned, but their calmer, smaller representatives can. So, having the big manifestation trapped and locked in the Ultima Weapon/Silvertear Falls doesn't seem to keep the less willful versions from manifesting.