[plea] please fix Mudra Lag first, plus please reconsider added positionals for NIN

[Spiritreaver1217]

This isn't a 'knee-jerk reaction thread' at all. This is a thread with people explaining why they really don't want positionals added to ninja, and requesting that SE fix the mudra problem that a majority of players deal with. "Every job is changing, get over it." is a non-argument.

Gonna have to disagree. Second sentence in the OP

Like the title says, imposing more depth to the NIN prior to fixing Mudra Lag is not good, IMHO.

Also, I must be honest... I'm very disappointed & sad that NIN will be receiving positionals on its rotations. Please reconsider.

I've mained MNK since 1.0~ until NIN's release...

I just don't think the thread was made just to ask SE to fix delays in the entering of mudras for the umpteenth time(especially since i think it was responded to at least once in the past).

But hey, that's just my opinion anyways.

[Yuri_Hyuga]

...the fact you don't seem to understand that only shows how poorly you've thought this situation through...

...*your* assault on me...

...ignorant entitlement.

...literally have no idea what you're talking about...

I'm done with you. I've seen people complain about your toxicity on the forum before but wow.

Judging my comprehension & remarking that I've poorly thought this out. Really? Also, my "assault" on you...?

I'm not even mad, just sad how badly you belittle & demean people. Doesn't matter though really, I won't be responding any further to you.

Good luck to you in the future.

This isn't a 'knee-jerk reaction thread' at all. This is a thread with people explaining why they really don't want positionals added to ninja, and requesting that SE fix the mudra problem that a majority of players deal with. "Every job is changing, get over it." is a non-argument.

Thanks Aethaeryn, that's exactly what this thread is.

[silentwindfr]

Again, that is completely false. My other fav job that i have gotten to a respectable level is BRD and the new stance/song is potentially going to change several current job actions that are BRD's bread and butter so to speak. And speaking for myself as a player whose other major skills will be changed when i get access to and start using Wanderer's Minuet, i can say that i can't wait to try it all out and see how to incorporate everything into a playstyle i can work with.

i stop you right there, bard will have the OPTION to switch of gameplay for gain more dps, where ninja is FORCED to use this new positional junk... it's quite different. you will still be able as bard to play you jobs like before, but now, when you don't need to move you will hit harder, for me it's all gain without downside.

on other hand ninja, that was never means to be made for positional fight, now will be changed for be like monk and dragoon... by adding a mechanic that was not means to be there from the start, that a reason of why a lot of player still play ninja even if the mudra lag is frustrating and the most punishing system of the game!
instead to adress our trouble, they add more trouble over it.

like i have said before, give me one reason to play ninja with this change? it will have the same positional system than monk and dragoon, but they will have in plus the most punishing and most affected by the lag system. why people will support this, when monk and dragoon offer more and less trouble? because the new system of chakra for the monk look really interesting and fresh in comparaison. and better no lag or punishement if you mess up.
the dragoon don't seems to get any weird systeme and receive tons of love recently.

soo far, instead to make the jobs evolve and devellop in unique feature.... they did decide to screw it and spit to the face of the people that did support this new type of gameplay. instead to adress our concern, they did decide to create more trouble for us and act like it's normal.

from my standpoint, they have screw badly and need to rethink the change of the ninja, the positional must'nt be the new system of the ninja, develop more the ninjutsu... even with mudra lag, i will have prefer more possibility from the ninjutsu than this.

instead to listen to the ninja community, they did listen the other community jealousing our difference. it's sad and it's our duty to let SE know that we are displease with this decision.

[SDaemon]

instead to listen to the ninja community, they did listen the other community jealousing our difference. it's sad and it's our duty to let SE know that we are displease with this decision.

NIN main here, I can live with the positionals even though I'm not fond of em, they don't really add anything to the job, but they aren't going to break the job.

[silentwindfr]

NIN main here, I can live with the positionals even though I'm not fond of em, they don't really add anything to the class, but they aren't going to break the class.

it's not about that it will break the jobs or if it's not doable, it will be doable and probably we will find a cycle that will work... but about the fact that it was not needed to the jobs.... that the point.
we are not here saying that it will be impossible to play it. but that it will make the jobs more painfull to be played, when monk and dragoon will be far easier.

like you say, yourself, it add nothing to the jobs.... why put it? instead to work around the ninjutsu or work on a system more different... for me, from the live letter, all i will keep, it's that... every jobs did gain new mechanic that will give more possibility to them, when ninja only get position, a refresh from huton with a skill and a skill for reduce the hate of your or a teammate. where i find the two other modification interesting.... it don't feel like needed for an expansion. it was QoL change, some stuff thet can add in a patch... nothing that will make me excited to play the jobs.... every freaking jobs have get new tool, mechanic or possibility that make them more deep... when ninja get nothing new.

the fact that it was added recently is not a decent escuse! it's a pitifull one. since it was added recently they had already the time to plan the next step of the jobs. when they have make it, they didn't introduce position. why do it now? why change totally a jobs that wasn't asking for this? because they had no idea of what add to the jobs. because them mudra are a pain to fix, because it will ask to change the whole game.

then it's our right and duty to say it's a mess up. we are not saying it's impossible to play, simply that they have ignore the playerbase playing the jobs. and did listen to other people... it's sad. because it means we didn't deserve as ninja player more... because we did decide to support a jobs added later.

ps: i must'nt be the only one feeling a bit betrayed by them decision and them way to handle the ninja for the expansion. between the lack of decent ninja glamour and this... do they hate the ninja?

[SDaemon]

it's not about that it will break the jobs or if it's not doable, it will be doable and probably we will find a cycle that will work... but about the fact that it was not needed to the jobs.... that the point.
we are not here saying that it will be impossible to play it. but that it will make the jobs more painfull to be played, when monk and dragoon will be far easier.

painful? how is it painful? at the moment we are free to attack from anywhere. I can and do attack from flank to back to flank moving however I please. currently having to attack from the back for TA isn't killing me, and neither will having to use a weaponskill from the flank and so on.

saying playing a mnk or drg come HW will be easier because of nin positionals is absolutely silly.

[silentwindfr]

dragoon have 1 combo and 1 skill, that recquire positional
monk on the other hand have two set of skill for either flank or back.

but noone of them have the mudra and it lag and it failure punishement. nor the monk nor the dragoon have a skill that can be failed and be reset for 20 second.

i say painfull, but it's more for make my word have more impact. it's more bothering. we will need to adapt our cycle to the new positional system. and from the word of yoshida it look more like monk than dragoon (with the light positional recquirement) meaning we will need to move from flank to side for get the whole dps of our skill. while still think at the ninjutsu. very good player will be able to do it with a bit of training. medium player will simply scraps raiton for fuma shuriken or switch of jobs.
because monk and dragoon have already positional fighting, but no trouble with the lag impacting badly them skill that can failed! you and i will probably be still ninja at the release of heavenward. but that don't means i must'nt say that i feel idiot to add positional to jobs that was different because of this. we can't compare ninja now at what it will be at heavenward.

indeed now it's simple to work our cycle without move. but even positional i will barely be impacted by it (did spend more time as monk than ninja after all) but some people did choose this jobs because of this difference... do they don't deserve a bit of respect of them choice?

ps: i do hope they will add a passive that will make the duration of both poison about the same, 30 second. that will already solve a lot of trouble with cycle. but that not the subject here.

[SDaemon]

snip

how are positionals going to cause you to fail your mudra? TA doesn't impact my mudra and right after NIN was released and before I learned that it was a horrible tooltip error I would always use aeolian edge from the flank and that never caused me to screw up my mudra. Let me rephrase actually, how are positionals going to add to mudra lag issues for you?

why would ppl scrap raiton for fuma (people with horrible mudra lag already do this occasionally, positionals aren't going to force them if they weren't already)? you can move while using mudra and casting them too.

duration of both poisons? are you talking about mutilate, dancing edge and shadow fang's dots?

[Adire]

snip

Haha, I'm "selectively remembering"?

Let me bold the part you're continuing to ignore, since you only want to bold and quote part of what I said.

Big difference here. None of the other classes are having potentially hugely gamechanging changes made to existing skills. Other classes are getting new concepts added with new abilities. NIN is getting old abilities changed after this entire time. How would other players feel if existing skills were suddenly changed in their job in such a way?

So again, not false. Unless you choose to not see half of what I bolded, then it would be false in your eyes I guess?

It's not nice to intentionally take what people say out of context

Minuet is not a change to old skills, it's a new concept that bards will have to deal with that is added via a new skill. Positionals for NIN are going on skills that have not had them since release because the playstyle and difficulty were found elsewhere other than in positionals. Adding positionals to them was a lazy way to make playing NIN more difficult, and a way that makes the class float towards the playstyle that defines MNK. Instead of getting a completely new set of skills to introduce positioning, we're getting our old ones changed. This is not the same as what's happening with other classes and quite frankly is not fair. And now we potentially have one less alternative to position-heavy melee.

[Yuri_Hyuga]

It's not nice to intentionally take what people say out of context

It's also condescending to type a smiley emoticon after such a statement...

(see what I did there)


On-Topic: ultimately, I think it just comes down to spoiling the spirit of the Job & what makes it special.