Summoners hope

[Alberel]

Blackmage:

Goes into umbral ice stance and uses ice spells building MP.
Go into astral fire stance using MP to use fire themed attacks.

Your logic says this is burst DPS, right?

Summoner:
Goes into Aether flow stance using DoTs and building bahamut stacks
Goes into Bahamut stance and starts spending bahamut stacks on bahamut themed attacks.

And this ISN'T burst DPS? You feeling ok man?

BLM can't "burst DPS" while in ice stance and summoner can't burst DPS if not in Bahamut stance.

Err you have the BLM concept entirely backwards. BLMs do not build MP then cast fire spells and Flare; they cast fire spells and Flare then recover the MP through use of Umbral Ice. There is a massive difference there. At the start of a fight a BLM can open immediately with their burst damage if needed, they can even double Flare a group of adds right away if they want. They do not have to recover that MP until after they execute their burst combo.

In contrast Yoshi explained that SMNs build up to Dreadwyrm Trance by consuming Aetherflow stacks. They cannot immediately open with DT, they have to build the stacks first then switch to DT. Do you see the difference?

Burst damage usually matters most in shorter fights or when facing groups of adds. Being able to open with a burst combo with no ramp up time is what makes burst damage burst damage. BLMs have burst, SMNs don't.

I'm curious where this summoner is who takes thirty seconds to dot up an enemy. Possibly Siberia? It's gotta be the worst Internet connection ever.

On a side note, as it currently stands, summoner is one of the highest dps for the first 30-60 seconds of an encounter. If that isn't burst... Then I'm not sure what is.

I'm afraid you really don't know what burst damage is then. Burst damage is very high damage in a very short space of time, usually a single hit or many hits over a couple of seconds. SMNs do the complete opposite of burst damage: they deal sustained damage which takes a far longer ramp-up time but usually pays off by being higher overall over a longer period of time.

Fester is the highest burst damage a SMN has and it's restricted by both Aetherflow stacks and the DOT requirements, not to mention it is single target only.

In contrast a BLM's best burst skill is Flare which is AOE, hits much harder than Fester and has no real requirement to cast beyond having an Astral Fire 3 stack up for optimum damage. It has a fairly hefty cost to be paid after using the skill (it consumes all MP) but it is there to use on demand whenever the BLM needs it.

tldr; Anything requiring ramp up time is not burst.

[Allyrion]

Burst damage is being able to deal a large amount of damage in short space of time. Period.
You can twist definitions all you want but that discussion started because others were using burst damage in that context in the first.
You can't rebuke it by simply moving the goalpost, i.e. saying your definition is different and SMN doesn't fit within it.

You can have burst in your opener but you can also have burst within your rotation.
You can have burst more on-hand, or you can have conditional burst that require cooldowns or building of stacks.
These legitimate and historical uses of burst damage in MMOs.

You can say SMN might not have burst in the very start of their opener(which probably won't be true anymore, being able to put all the dots on at the start).
Or it might be less on-demand(that remains to be seen).
But the whole Trance mechanic is clearly an added Burst phase in the SMN rotation.

The only way to refute that it is make a narrow definition for the sole purpose of denying this because it's not the right type of burst(for you).
That's really not an argument. Especially when refuting someone else's use of a term which was clearly much less narrow.

[Iromi]

Yeah when an add pops and needs to be burned asap lemme tell you how awesome that goes on my smn. Or when someone gets stuck in ice on Shiva or the gaol on titan. Lol.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Yeah when an add pops and needs to be burned asap lemme tell you how awesome that goes on my smn. Or when someone gets stuck in ice on Shiva or the gaol on titan. Lol.

That's not the point....Allyrion was merely pointing out that regardless if how it works SMN's DT and even Fester and Enkindle are classed as burst DPS abilities, which is an unequivocal truth! Neither DT, Fester or Enkindle are DoT's. The abilities themselves do a single spike of damage and that's it! AKA BURST!....

However you are right that SMN needs more burst openers for things like Titan's Goals. However that does not alter the fact that DT/Fester/Enkindle still fall under the burst category...just saying. However with Tri Disaster now inflicting Miasma, Bio and Bio II instantly it would be very easy to just pop Fester straight after. So depending on the cool down for this new Tri Disaster this could be a great, quick burst DPS combo for SMN.

[Iroukan]

Last time I checked, when I bane on titan and then fester on the goal it's almost death. And being able to continue dpsing via my dots and my pet when on ice or goal or whatever is probably one of our very unique features as a dps class.

We cant burst as high as a black mage ... Yet. But we are the mobility mage that can DPS on the run very effectivly.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Last time I checked, when I bane on titan and then fester on the goal it's almost death. And being able to continue dpsing via my dots and my pet when on ice or goal or whatever is probably one of our very unique features as a dps class.

Actually I mentioned nothing about Bane....I was referring to the new Tri Disaster, SMN's new and improved ability that casts Miasma, Bio and Bio II on a single target INSTANTLY!.....so actually it would be very quick and easy to pop Bane and/or Fester after this for a quick burst combo, as I said. Depending how many Aetherflow stacks the new Tri Distaster takes up of course (if any).

[Iromi]

That's not the point....Allyrion was merely pointing out that regardless if how it works SMN's DT and even Fester and Enkindle are classed as burst DPS abilities, which is an unequivocal truth! Neither DT, Fester or Enkindle are DoT's. The abilities themselves do a single spike of damage and that's it! AKA BURST!....

However you are right that SMN needs more burst openers for things like Titan's Goals. However that does not alter the fact that DT/Fester/Enkindle still fall under the burst category...just saying. However with Tri Disaster now inflicting Miasma, Bio and Bio II instantly it would be very easy to just pop Fester straight after. So depending on the cool down for this new Tri Disaster this could be a great, quick burst DPS combo for SMN.

Oh I know..that was just me making a random point..lol it sucks to be on SMN and need very fast damage in short amount of time I am hoping this is something the devs are aware of and will give us something to help that in the expansion ^^

[SoloWingMetatron]

Oh I know..that was just me making a random point..lol it sucks to be on SMN and need very fast damage in short amount of time I am hoping this is something the devs are aware of and will give us something to help that in the expansion ^^

This is true, though that is probably why they chose to focus on giving us this new Tri Disaster and Dreadwyrm Trance, to give us some more burst potential. Instead of fixing the Egi, which I assume will come later

[Iromi]

This is true, though that is probably why they chose to focus on giving us this new Tri Disaster and Dreadwyrm Trance, to give us some more burst potential. Instead of fixing the Egi, which I assume will come later

Yes I agree, they HAVE to know it is an issue haha.

I am really looking forward to getting to try this stuff out! And I imagine there is also abilities/skills that we have not seen yet too Also would like to say the animations look beautiful, we can finally do more then push a book out in front of us guys! Haha.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Yes I agree, they HAVE to know it is an issue haha.

I am really looking forward to getting to try this stuff out! And I imagine there is also abilities/skills that we have not seen yet too Also would like to say the animations look beautiful, we can finally do more then push a book out in front of us guys! Haha.

Exactly! Also we are yet to see what SMN's new LB3 will be, maybe it will be summoning a full Primal, or larger Egi to do a signature move like Diamond Dust and then disappear. Or maybe it's Megaflare or even an Odin move, so many possibilities but we shall find out on the release of HW!