Lumber?

[Xenor]

It would be nice if we could get a dev comment on what's going to happen with lumber in the future. Nuggets are being removed so it would make sense to assume that lumber will be removed too and that items will be made directly from logs like items are made directly from ores.

So could we get any clarification on this? I don't want to end up with a load of worthless lumber.

[Amineri]

I didn't see any example of finished items being made directly from ores given.

Examples so far included:
Ore ~> Copper Ingot ~> Hempen Doublet
Ore ~> Electrum Ingot ~> Cobalt Sabatons
Ore ~> Cobalt Rings ~> Cobalt Sabatons
Ore ~> Cobalt Ingot ~> Cobalt Plate ~> Cobalt Sabatons

The (very few) recipes so far given (Hempen Doublet, Cobalt Sabatons, Cobalt Sabatons (Red)) did not appear to use any "raw" gathered / dropped materials directly in the final item synthesis. Drawing too many conclusions from this is ... well ... dangerous. >.>'

My personal speculation is that lumber will stick around, but that more recipes will use the lumber directly, rather then turning it into a handle/shaft/whatever that is only used for 1 or 2 items.

[Xenor]

I never said finished items though, I said items. If you look at your example you'll see ore becomes an ingot rather than becoming nuggets and then an ingot. Nuggets are on the way out. The CRP equivalent would be taking away lumber and having logs used where lumber used to be used. Lumber is to log as nugget is to ore.

[Amineri]

I never said finished items though, I said items. If you look at your example you'll see ore becomes an ingot rather than becoming nuggets and then an ingot. Nuggets are on the way out. The CRP equivalent would be taking away lumber and having logs used where lumber used to be used. Lumber is to log as nugget is to ore.

Ack! I completely misinterpreted what you are saying. I'm very sorry about that!

I have been thinking about what the other crafts might look like, in the same vein of thought that you are following (now that I'm on the same one! ^-^).

The pieces of information I've been extrapolating from are:

In addressing this issue, as a general rule, new recipes will no longer consist of parts.

While there are numerous types of materials and parts in existence, low market demand has resulted in shortages for a large number of items. In addressing this problem, we will gradually do away with intermediate materials that find little use, leaving only those that are central to synthesis.

Most of the intermediate Carpenter recipes are of the form : Log ~> Lumber ~> Haft ~> Finished Item. Axe Haft, Hammer Grips, Spear Shafts, Sledgehammer Hafts, etc. The majority of these "hafts" are used for only 1 or 2 finished item. These hafts are, I believe, precisely the types of intermediate materials that will be phased out, leaving only the lumber behind.

Rather than trying to draw an analogy from the metal world, perhaps a better craft would be weaving. The example Hempen Doublet still uses both yarn and cloth. Now, whether cloth is made via : Fibre ~> Cloth, or still follows Fibre ~> Yarn ~> Cloth is uncertain. Both examples have precedent: Ore ~> Nugget ~> Ingot is condensed to Ore ~> Ingot, but Ore ~> Ingot ~> Plate still exists. However, the weaving intermediate materials that are being removed are the item specific parts : e.g. Hempen Doublet Front, Hempen Doublet Back, Hempen Sleeves. The first two are used to make only a single item, so seem to clearly fall under the "intermediate materials that find little use" concept.

So, for Carpentry, I see the numerous hafts, handles and grips that are used for only a single item being phased out and replaced with a more generic material such as lumber.

For Blacksmithing, I see the numerous specific tool and weapon parts, such as hammer heads, axe heads, saw blades, hatchet heads, etc being phased out and replaced with more generic materials such as ingots.

For both of these, I've been trying to anticipate whether a "secondary intermediate material" will be added, in line with the Ore ~> Ingot ~> Plate from ARM, or Fibre ~> Yarn ~> Cloth from WVR. Some sort of more generic intermediate material that falls in between Lumber and finished item, like a generic handle, or between Ingot and finished item, like a generic tool head. So far nothing obvious occurs to me, but in terms of game balance between craft classes, such an item makes sense (at least to me!).

[RowanLauron]

I don't see lumber going away. The parts that are made from lumber will go away, but that's how I'm reading it.

As far as nuggets they are really unnecessary, so I see why they are going away...it's just an extra synth that imo was a complete time and crystal waste, but I can understand your concern about lumber since ppl who are not CRP's may say the same thing about lumber as we (CRP's) see nuggets.

[RisaCooper]

Are you sure nuggets are going away?? Cause nuggets are a material like yarn or lumber not a part.

[Amineri]

Are you sure nuggets are going away?? Cause nuggets are a material like yarn or lumber not a part.

Direct from Yoshi-P (as translated by Bayohne):

1. Nuggets
None of the new recipes added in Patch 1.19 will require nuggets. In fact, we do not plan on requiring nuggets in any of the recipes that we will be adding from here on out. However, old recipes will remain in the game for a while, so there is no need to worry about items in the process of synthesis being affected. I am thinking that the transfers to the new recipe period will go on through patch 1.20.

[RisaCooper]

@.@ well there go all those easy recipes to lvl up on

[Amineri]

@.@ well there go all those easy recipes to lvl up on

Also hopefully some of the item glut.

1 log ~> 4 lumber ~> 4 masks (and with five synths)

Five synths to make four finished items, and requiring only one gathered material, is just far far too many finished items to possibly be absorbed by the materia-conversion system. Will it change? Don't know, but if it doesn't it will be a major weakness in the new system.