Another Upset Summoner

[Higashikata]

ikr? SMNs should get actual summonerlike smmoning garuda ex to do full damage and lots of aoe so i can be top dps without doing anything but ruin II!

But in all seriousness, they showed 5 skills and only covered what two of them do and yet all anybody can do is cry about pets. What else could they do with pets that would radically change summoner? Release a new pet that's better at AoE than garuda and better at single target than ifrit? Then what? Make it completely pointless to use any other pet? Buffing the pets to the point where the summoner needs nerfing? Changing the class from the ground up to cater to the people who want more flashy aoe super burst DPS?

I don't see what else SE can add to SMN pets at this point that wouldn't require re-building the entire class or being completely pointless.

[Judge_Xero]

Yup, I think that's the 'Flare' line of spells are pretty much reserved for BLM at this point. Giving Mega/Tera/Whatever-Flare to SMN would be too much of a blurring between the two jobs. If any more Flares make it into the game as job skills, they'll be given to BLM.

This way we're more unique with regards to the other jobs (except SCH which we share our base class with ofc).

Flare is just a normal Black Magic Spell. I don't see any issue with SMN ever getting more Bahamut Skills.

[Akiza]

Tera Flare is Bahamut's signature skill so giving it to Summoner under Dreadwyrm trance is not an issue.

I hope SE reduce the cool down of Enkindle to 60s since it's base damage is lower than Flare and around that of Fire III or astral 3 Fire.

[Kuponutz]

Double flare has a CD and can only be used once every now and then, bane can be used upto 6 times, thats constant dots up and is far more efficient then fire 2 + flare over targets that have high health.

There is no CD on Flare, while it would be poor form you could Flare > Convert > Flare > Transpose > Flare > Ether > Flare > Transpose > Flare. Before I get hate mail from BLM I am not suggesting this rotation, this is just for illustration purposes to try to show that there is no CD on Flare and that it can certainly be used more than "once every now and then". Ill-advised, yes, impossible, no.

Rael, if you check out page 3 Dyvid was kind enough to link the interview. Main point:
"but in the future you'll be able to summon a certain old man and a sister clothed in ice who's also quite cute".

To me that is him saying that we will be able to summon other egis, it's not like he's being vague or just hinting at it. He flat out says we're getting them. He beat around the bush with alluding to Ramuh and Shiva but he absolutely said we are egis of some form.

[AzureZenorag13]

Rael, if you check out page 3 Dyvid was kind enough to link the interview. Main point: "but in the future you'll be able to summon a certain old man and a sister clothed in ice who's also quite cute".

To me that is him saying that we will be able to summon other egis, it's not like he's being vague or just hinting at it. He flat out says we're getting them. He beat around the bush with alluding to Ramuh and Shiva but he absolutely said we are egis of some form.

--Are those summons coming next, or will Leviathan?
Y: Leviathan, hmm... I'm not sure whether Ramuh or Leviathan will come first (laughs). I think it'll happen when the level cap is raised, so I really can't say yet.

He says he thinks it'll happen, he never says it will. so no he didnt promise

[Havenchild]

I think what they showed in expansion was the best move they could have done with the direction of the class.

I very much agree that adding new pets makes no sense atm for this iteration of summoner. Again what is the point? I don't really care what they claimed would come because I have the common sense to know, things and plans change as the game progresses. To see people surprised they won't be giving egis right away especially after the swift changes that came to housing regardless of previous statements, to me shows people aren't really paying attention to the development process at all. Furthermore, they said we won't get new egis at this time, but that didn't mean never.

People keep saying add more pets and then in the same breath asking to give every pet a reason to be used? Please elaborate on how do you balance this correctly.
There will always be one pet that will come out on top of all the rest anyway. So why are we simply adding bloat to the class that in the end is gonna be a waste of development which gives rarely any benefit? Currently we have Ifrit surpassing Garuda in almost every situation even some AoE based ones where she is supposed to be good in. It's so bad at this point that you can use Ifrit in almost all scenarios even the ones Garuda is better and you would still see very little difference in damage. Ifrit has nearly invalidated Garuda entirely and this is only with three pets in play. The only way to get around this issue of the go- to pet, is if they were to allow us to use two pets at a time.

So now let's look at a few things:
There are some nuances of the class that should be tweaked.

Food hands down should affect pets, and if not from secondary stats AT LEAST ACC should be transferred. If we are gonna be subject to the same gear as other casting classes then we should both be using the same ACC. So either BLM should have to meet SMN ACC or SMN ACC should be lowered to match BLM. Works like this with melee or BRD currently yet SMN seems to be the only class being punished by this extra requirement.

The class needed some sort of better Burst tool. Sure you could use some things like ED and Ruin II combos but that wasn't exactly great. Although we don't know the entire picture just yet, perhaps this Tri-Disaster or Ahk Morn ability is essentially this "burst" option. We don't know entirely yet.

Pet AI: Needs cleaning up. Especially the times when Garuda or Ifrit refuse to use an ability for whatever reason. Also needs to fix the fact when pets decide to stop doing anything after an add dies sometimes.

Enkindle: This definitely needs to be lowered CD wise. 5mins is far too long for the amount of damage it does. We can fire off 3 Festers per min that will do the same or more damage then this ability. Please explain why this is still 5 mins.

Outside of those things, to be straight up, the SMN community as a whole and others who try to ask for certain buffs to the class, don't even play it to its full potential most of the time. So often enough, I see all this "advice" to help the classes performance, and meanwhile I'm sitting here thinking like, "I'm sure no ones thinking how crazy things can get unbalanced easily with SMN". Would I personally want to do more damage, sure because to me it doesn't make too much sense that BLMs do superior AoE and have a higher damage cap on single target but I also want it to be balanced with BLM alil because as soon as SMN has a high single target damage cap, it can very easily transfer over to doing more AoE damage due to Bane.

Both casters need to be valid for use. Overall though, everyone that seems to be complaining have no idea, what aspects will change about the class as we do not know everything yet. I main SMN throughly, and it even offends me that I feel like I'm part of a community of crybabies. Every other job community seems to be progressive in improving while SMNs just seem to whine and moan without even trying to compete against the other classes.

[Kuponutz]

--Are those summons coming next, or will Leviathan?
Y: Leviathan, hmm... I'm not sure whether Ramuh or Leviathan will come first (laughs). I think it'll happen when the level cap is raised, so I really can't say yet.

He says he thinks it'll happen, he never says it will. so no he didnt promise

He said he he will think about which ones to give us when the level cap is raised, not that he's thinking about giving us egis period. The sentence right before that he said we were and hinted at the primal. The line you copied if in response to whether he'll do Levi first or not.

[AzureZenorag13]

He said he he will think about which ones to give us when the level cap is raised, not that he's thinking about giving us egis period. The sentence right before that he said we were and hinted at the primal. The line you copied if in response to whether he'll do Levi first or not.

ya he's not sure if ramuh or levi will come first, and he thinks it'll happen when level cap is raised, implying that he doesnt know which will be released first if it is even released

[Kuponutz]

I agree with almost everything you said Haven. Obviously the food thing and the Enkindle issue I had mentioned earlier but also the balancing to an extent. Of course there would need to be balancing to have the new pets put in but I think for a lot of us we thought this would be the time. I for one certainly didn't think we would get new pets and they would be able to put them in and not have to make adjustments. Early on in thread we discussed that the Elemental Wheel issue as the biggest roadblock here. But again, roadblock or none we thought the expansion would address this in addition to giving us new pets with new abilities. The disappointment happens when promised one thing and not really directly addressing it. I'm not saying they're not fixing it at all just that on Thurs we really needed to hear something constructive about some improvements that were coming and instead we were given a short clip of pretty lights and over-hyped ability names. It felt like the equivalent of a 5 yr old waiting for Xmas to come then when it does he gets a lump of coal, named "chocolate" and is supposed to be happy about said coal because it has a name that sounds like it would be good. There was nothing constructive offered and no acknowledgement of the SMN situation beyond "yea Tri-Disaster sucks we'll rename it and you give you a real one".

I swear if you had asked me a week ago what my biggest concerns were as a SMN Tri-Disaster was the last thing on my list. Although that could be because I haven't used in forever.

[Havenchild]

snip

All I'm saying, it's too soon to judge what we have and don't have. Half of your suggestions for example could be a simple part of patch notes that are guaranteed to hit every classes current skills. All they showed in that video in general for all classes was what was being added to the class. Fairly sure they they didn't even comment on how any of the classes current abilities would be changing. Not to mention we also don't know all of the affects of the new abilities and/or traits being added. Several things may very well change for the better but meanwhile everyone is going bananas now when we don't even know everything and even if this was everything, we still again don't know how much this changes the balance of power.

The Pets, perhaps a promise broken for now with the new Egis, but I refuse to believe the correct idea was to add more Pets when the current system has incredible flaws that need adjusting. Before we add more Pets let's fix the current issues we have with the ones available, after which we then fix the problem of the go-to pet. No one is saying more Egi's wont come just not at this time. Even if more didn't come, it's not a terrible idea to think that maybe just maybe they can expand on what we currently have ability wise of Pets and this may actually become a interactive class + SMN abilities.

Let's get rid of what everyone's ideal version of the FFXIV Summoner should be, because everyone is thinking differently there. Instead work on what we currently have and strengthen some of the current aspects of the class that are lacking. For now, I think they took one thing into consideration of SMN in 3.0. The cooldown period you have every 30 seconds until you get another set of Aetherflow stacks, which is big because that's where the main loss of DPS comes from. Their answer to that is Bahamut Trance which to me feels like an interesting new way of connecting summoners to the summons / primals. They could further expand on this side later on as an option while also working on new egis to become a summoner / evoker (channeler) combo. Who knows what else they could do. Another rather common complaint about SMN was that it was boring to look at when playing because it didn't have many flashy abilities at all so people weren't enticed by it. Two birds with one stone with this Trance ability. One step at a time I say.

The biggest thing I want from the class, is perhaps to streamline it alil. It's a very complex class to grasp and imo, too complex. The hardest part of it is maximization and many SMNs currently aren't capable of doing that because to me, it doesn't articulate well everything you need to do to get there. Just too much work to play the class correctly, and that to me, needs to be worked on the most. If anything I'm surprised people aren't up in arms that they may in fact be making it more complex with some of the current stuff we know being added. If people can't easily decipher how to play the class correctly, then to me that's just leading to further people abandoning the class because it's seeming more and more incapable of doing well when people consistently pull bad numbers but then you have a slightly simpler system in BLM.