Another Upset Summoner

[Dyvid]

Having each of the current pets fleshed out would be a huge bonus. I think some who want more pets, don't even realize that they have different purposes (other than Titan) and not just "use whatever one you like".
Garuda could use stronger AOE skills and Ifrit could use much stronger single target so you can distinctly classify them as such. (Ifrit flaming crush has no business being AOE)
These are all changes that could be coming in 3.0, which is definitely more important for SMN than say, another AOE or ST pet that doesn't quite accomplish its purpose.

Honestly I think devs and the community lack imagination when it comes to pets.

Ifrit - Single Target melee pet that adds dps buff to melee dps
Ramuh - Single Target range pet that adds dps buff to back line dps
Garuda - AoE range pet that adds back line dps buff
Shiva - AoE melee pet that adds melee dps buff (maybe tp regen so they can spam more AoE abilities)
Titan - Tank Defense buff in obey that can become emergency tank with sic
Levithan - slight healer buff / Crowd Control (mainly AoE push backs and binds to protect Mages from adds)

Change cast times to standard 2.5 and lower mp cost to encourage situation summons.

[SoloWingMetatron]

Honestly I think devs and the community lack imagination when it comes to pets.

Ifrit - Single Target melee pet that adds dps buff to melee dps
Ramuh - Single Target range pet that adds dps buff to back line dps
Garuda - AoE range pet that adds back line dps buff
Shiva - AoE melee pet that adds melee dps buff (maybe tp regen so they can spam more AoE abilities)
Titan - Tank Defense buff in obey that can become emergency tank with sic
Levithan - slight healer buff / Crowd Control (mainly AoE push backs and binds to protect Mages from adds)

Who says SE couldn't do something like this in the future?...just coz they mentioned they are bringing a glamour system doesn't mean they won't try to add to the Egi's abilities and even add a 4th or 5th Egi play style. The introduction of a glamour system or the introduction of the Dreadwyrm Trance does not hinder this or the Egi's development in any way, shape or form.

Generally the people wanted both more burst potential for SMN as well as more viable Egi/wider selection of Egi. You can't expect SE to have tackled both of these issues at the same time, whilst developing a 60 hour+ expansion as well as new rotations for every other job...one would always have to come before the other and they chose to give us Dreadwyrm Trance to address the burst situation. Now that's done they can focus on Egi and since they have not mentioned anything about these changes yet, you can hardly say that they lack imagination...you don't know what they are working on.

[VanilleFang]

summons = buffs?

I didn't realize a Summoner was a buffer. I must be playing a different game.

[Dyvid]

Who says SE couldn't do something like this in the future?

3.0 was the "future", the promised upgrade to all jobs and SE has made it clear they don't want to focus on pets in their only pet class.

I didn't realize a Summoner was a buffer. I must be playing a different game.

You are correct, SMN and BLM are the only dps jobs that don't provide a party dps increase with buff or debuff. Don't believe me, see Dragon kick, Disembowel, Trick Attack, and even Storm's Eye. So why can't SMN and BLM get some love? Good come back though for why SE shouldn't focus on pets.

[SoloWingMetatron]

3.0 was the "future", the promised upgrade to all jobs and SE has made it clear they don't want to focus on pets in their only pet class.

SE never once said that the upgrade would include Egi changes for the launch of 3.0...that was your assumption, nothing more. So no it wasn't "the future" it was your presumptuous future.

Fact of the matter is, that many people here (myself included) have either claimed that SMN needs more burst potential, or that it needs more focus on viable Egi/new Egi. SE has addressed both of these concerns and chose to prioritize the burst potential first. Then they will work on the Egi, but either way we will have our Egi. All this boils down to at the end of the day is people selfishly bitching that their needs/wants were not met first....but what about other peoples needs/wants. SE has confirmed they are addressing both so we will ultimately get both.

[Kuponutz]

All this boils down to at the end of the day is people selfishly bitching that their needs/wants were not met first....but what about other peoples needs/wants. SE has confirmed they are addressing both so we will ultimately get both.

The problem with this statement is that we're not insisting on getting anything first. Black Mage became their priority in 2.2/2.3. 2.4 saw ninja and seriously screwed SMN up by putting spell speed on every piece of gear. We are over a year out from the time Yoshi said we would get new egis (Tokyo FATE 2014). I really don't see how this could possibly be us being greedy and demanding we get our things first. We've been last on the list for more than a year and we finally got tired of being stomped on, but heaven forbid after a year we ask where our promised fixes are.

[SoloWingMetatron]

The problem with this statement is that we're not insisting on getting anything first. Black Mage became their priority in 2.2/2.3. 2.4 saw ninja and seriously screwed SMN up by putting spell speed on every piece of gear. We are over a year out from the time Yoshi said we would get new egis (Tokyo FATE 2014). I really don't see how this could possibly be us being greedy and demanding we get our things first. We've been last on the list for more than a year and we finally got tired of being stomped on, but heaven forbid after a year we ask where our promised fixes are.

Oh don't get me wrong I get why there's disappointment because acquiring new Egi was going to be my top priority in HW and will continue to be a priority for me when new Egi are finally released. I do love my Egi and was disappointed when the release of new Egi was pushed back further. However there's a difference from people being disappointed (like you and I) and people who are irrationally bashing SMN's new abilities as if it's in some way breaking or ruining the job. When in actual fact these new abilities are perfectly fine, not only do they fix SMN's burst DPS issues, but they also stay true to the lore.

Yes perhaps the new ability could have been triggered from an Egi, though technically that Bahamut head is a temporary Egi so it all depends how you choose to look at it. I personally choose to see it as an Elder Primal summoning, with the regular Primals coming as Egi. So ultimately we are getting both, so wheres the issue? Surely as long as we get new Egi (which we will) then that's all that matters, just need to be patient and trust SE.

[Havenchild]

Honestly I think devs and the community lack imagination when it comes to pets.

Ifrit - Single Target melee pet that adds dps buff to melee dps
Ramuh - Single Target range pet that adds dps buff to back line dps
Garuda - AoE range pet that adds back line dps buff
Shiva - AoE melee pet that adds melee dps buff (maybe tp regen so they can spam more AoE abilities)
Titan - Tank Defense buff in obey that can become emergency tank with sic
Levithan - slight healer buff / Crowd Control (mainly AoE push backs and binds to protect Mages from adds)

Whichever brings the most DPS, will become the mainstream. Let's talk raiding situation.
Look at Ifrit vs Shiva: The AoEs from Shiva is going to have less potency then Ifrits attacks. So we have a DPS loss there. So let's look at this TP regen, this is adding utility to SMN in the form of helping the other melee DPS, but if this is too strong you invalidate a Bard, or a SMNs DPS because the Pet is weaker. If a BLM is doing more then a SMN though, you have more of the current problem. Whatever gives higher raid DPS will be the go - to. If Shivas Potency is as strong as Ifrit or stronger, Shiva > Ifrit. If giving infinite TP to melee is too strong, it's going to be balanced with the Pets DPS and if it's not it invalidates Ifrit.

Leviathan - Pointless. Even in progression, nothing will be un-healable among the actual healer abilities. Again sacrificing DPS, for no overall gain. It's also often better to push some phase to avoid mechanics that further increase healing which requires DPS.
Ifrit - A DPS buff to melee? That's at least 3 - 4 classes in any given party. Nothing would be able to beat this, not even infinite TP Shiva. Very strong contender for the go-to unversally.
Ramuh / Garuda - Depends on how much this baseline buff could compete against Ifrits overall DPS and if we use your idea of melee buff, it wouldn't hold a candle to it unless it was seriously OP, at which case they would invalidate Ifrit.

No one needs to be lacking imagination here. It's just a constant balancing act and then on top of that preventing one pet from emerging stronger then the rest. As soon as one is too strong, the rest become bloat and this can't be avoided in a one-egi maximum setup.

[Dyvid]

snip

Well let's talk non raiding stuff and on stuff we do on a daily basis.

Ifrit - Boss fight with a melee heavy party
Ramuh - boss fights with a range heavy party
Shiva - trash mobs with melee party
Garuda - trash mobs with range heavy party

Last two are break glass situations like the new tank can't hold hate and mobs keep going after healer or tank dies and need emergency tank real fast.

Key word is situation and a pet that fits well. But whatever, SE made their design choice and now we get to make ours. I'll most likely change to Astrologian because it seems like a gambler class that I've loved in FF.

Fact of the matter is, that many people here (myself included) have either claimed that SMN needs more burst potential, or that it needs more focus on viable Egi/new Egi. SE has addressed both of these concerns and chose to prioritize the burst potential first. Then they will work on the Egi, but either way we will have our Egi. All this boils down to at the end of the day is people selfishly bitching that their needs/wants were not met first....but what about other peoples needs/wants. SE has confirmed they are addressing both so we will ultimately get both.

Feel free to review my post and feedback on SMN for the past two years. The community has had many great SMNs providing useful feedback. SE said they are going to focus on Summoner, not summoner's pet so that is that but instead adding glamour for Egi skins.

[Havenchild]

Well let's talk non raiding stuff and on stuff we do on a daily basis.

Ifrit - Boss fight with a melee heavy party
Ramuh - boss fights with a range heavy party
Shiva - trash mobs with melee party
Garuda - trash mobs with range heavy party

Last two are break glass situations like the new tank can't hold hate and mobs keep going after healer or tank dies and need emergency tank real fast.

Key word is situation and a pet that fits well. But whatever, SE made their design choice and now we get to make ours. I'll most likely change to Astrologian because it seems like a gambler class that I've loved in FF.

Dungeons? Maybe the AoE Pets can be interchangeable depending on the buff they add, and what is your fellow DPS true, but their default attack would have to be AoE also, otherwise, the single target pets that are doing stronger damage like Ifrit already can still best the "AoE" based ones if things are dying fast enough, which they tend to unless your total DPS is that low.

Ask yourself right now, what defines Garuda as the "AoE" pet right now? It's simply Contagion. If Contagion is rendered useless? Ifrit wins hands down including on trash mobs.

What you're saying, for example, is adding new effects sure but more to have something different, with no regard to howthe damage will balance out. So basically adding egis to add them without giving them a definitive situation they will ALWAYS be better.

Look at Garuda vs Shiva: If Contagion stayed on Garuda? Unless Shiva is doing much more AoE damage (assuming shes not getting a Contagion like ability also) she won't win. If she IS doing that much more AoE damage, Garuda loses by default. Take away the utility, and whatever adds more damage will come out at the top. Add back in the utility and it's still the same.