RIP Ninja

[Ransu]

It shouldn't be about who likes positionals and who doesn't. It should be an even scale about how much you can handle them.

No that's exactly how it should be. The entire point of having different classes/jobs is to have a unique playstyle for each one to appeal to a wide audience. I'm sick and tired of developers homogenizing their classes in every single MMO. That crap is boring.

[Taranok]

No that's exactly how it should be. The entire point of having different classes/jobs is to have a unique playstyle for each one to appeal to a wide audience. I'm sick and tired of developers homogenizing their classes in every single MMO. That crap is boring.

Yes, exactly. There are ways to make a rotation more complex without needing positionals, just as there's ways to make rotations more complex without forcing someone to stand completely still. The Bard rotation is allowed to be lower DPS than the BLM or SMN because the Bard doesn't need to stop attacking while moving, so it can be a rotation where using the most optimal skill for every moment is required. The Ninja can have more rotational complexity in much the same way as a Bard could to accomplish the same thing.

That is, they are punished for not using the most optimal ability at all times, otherwise known as a priority-based rotation. This is what the Ninja actually has right now, it's just too simple if you have access to a warrior or another ninja, and not much more complicated if you don't. What are the optimal ability rotations? Basically Huton>Suiton(trick attack)>Raiton, and Dancing Edge/Storm's Eye>Mutilate>Shadow Fang>Aeolian Edge. That's it. That's the entire Ninja rotation.

And that is what the devs should be fixing. Outside of those abilities, all you have are your jugulate, mug, Kassatsu, which is prioritized to be used after Suiton or when its GCD is up thereafter, and Blood for Blood and Internal Release when able (also ideally prioritized around Suiton).

How do you make this more complicated? Well, I'd first start by just getting rid of Dancing Edge or make Dancing Edge the number 2 position ability before pushing one of 2 other third abilities after (adjust damage accordingly), such as Shadow Fang or Huton-extender. That would complicate the rotation, and would help stifle DPS while making the rotation more complex, as now you have 3 different 3-button combos to juggle instead of just 2 with a token 2-length combo. It also makes timing shadow fang a bit trickier. This is just an example of what can be done. Moving Dancing Edge to the mid part of the rotation also serves to put it in the same league as the piercing resistance debuff of Dragoons and helps to devalue Storm's Eye as a requirement in raids while also serving to make it so NIN damage is more consistent regardless of the inclusion of a warrior or second ninja, as it really does make a noticeable difference as to whether it's up or not.

But I digress. The point is that class diversity is important, not having positionals but having a complicated priority system would serve to make the class have the same difficulty as the Monk without killing diversity.

[silentwindfr]

...The point is that class diversity is important, not having positionals but having a complicated priority system would serve to make the class have the same difficulty as the Monk without killing diversity.

only this part make me tilt, because i have never found monk hard to play, the rotation is quite simple and don't change, the only hard part over it, it's the time where you loose the GL because of the fight mechanic mostly. but outside this the monk is far from being complicate, you do have an optimal position to place yourself for have to mov the little possible while executing your series of combo, either on flank or rear. most fo the time you will chain 3 skill before switch of position and if you respect the position it's quite easy.

the difficulty of the ninja don't come from the weaponskill rotation only, but from the weaponskill rotation plus the ninjutsu. simply say that you need to execute suiton, raiton and such are kinda understatement over the trouble it can create.