RIP Ninja

[Erudain]

Well the problem is "If positionals bother you there is NIN currently" for anyone who wanted to melee dps; then it becomes "If positionals bother you, too bad, you can't play melee dps, deal with it".
Having choices is good...

[Kuurei]

Well the problem is "If positionals bother you there is NIN currently" for anyone who wanted to melee dps; then it becomes "If positionals bother you, too bad, you can't play melee dps, deal with it".
Having choices is good...

Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

[Kaze3434]

Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

you mean like how all current positionals work? a bonus to dmg and the only current one giving a debuff when used.(trick attack).

[Dualblade]

Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

Two actually: Heavy Thrust for Flank, Chaos Thrust from behind.

[Taranok]

Well the problem is "If positionals bother you there is NIN currently" for anyone who wanted to melee dps; then it becomes "If positionals bother you, too bad, you can't play melee dps, deal with it".
Having choices is good...

Until everyone understands this, I will continue to say it, since this is really the problem.

Dragoon is always an option. Their positional (Read: sole positional move) simply provides a bonus if used positionally. Granted, if you don't use it from the flank/rear your DPS will suffer by like 3~8% at minimum but still.

Right now, there are 3 MDPS classes:

The Monk, which requires so many positionals per minute I wouldn't even know how to accurately quantify it other than a loose guess of 18 positionals per minute making the assumption of 3 out of every 5 abilities per 10 seconds is a positional, which is likely not correct but seems good enough for the purposes of debate.

The Dragoon, which requires a mere 5 positionals per minute (3 heavy thrusts and 2 impulse drives per minute).

And Ninja, which requires a mere one positional per minute. It happens to be the largest pass/fail positional in the entire game at the present, though the only positional we know that will be close to it in pass fail is the Warrior's perfect parry, interestingly enough.

When you examine this, people who love positionals already have a class in the MDPS archetype. People who are okay with, but don't enjoy too many, have the Dragoon. People who hate positionals but want a melee DPS class have the Ninja if they can begrudgingly accept a mere one.

You are basically telling anyone who hates positionals but loves melee DPS to play RDPS classes, which many people do not enjoy.

Saying "Their positionals are bonus" does not alleviate the fact that they are required to maximize DPS as a MDPS class. They just don't completely cripple your DPS like they used to back when they were hard requirements. And to anyone who doesn't enjoy this, they are basically out of luck, because everyone wants the Ninja to be turned into a pseudo Dragoon or a Monk without giving anything in return. So instead of having even one class cater to the people who don't like positionals but love MDPS, you are saying they just shouldn't be MDPS because the people who love positionals and RDPS classes want something different from the Monk or Dragoon in style, but functionally similar in gameplay.

How can you not see this as a problem?

[Kaze3434]

Until everyone understands this, I will continue to say it, since this is really the problem.



Right now, there are 3 MDPS classes:

The Monk, which requires so many positionals per minute I wouldn't even know how to accurately quantify it other than a loose guess of 18 positionals per minute making the assumption of 3 out of every 5 abilities per 10 seconds is a positional, which is likely not correct but seems good enough for the purposes of debate.

The Dragoon, which requires a mere 5 positionals per minute (3 heavy thrusts and 2 impulse drives per minute).

And Ninja, which requires a mere one positional per minute. It happens to be the largest pass/fail positional in the entire game at the present, though the only positional we know that will be close to it in pass fail is the Warrior's perfect parry, interestingly enough.

none of the three have actual requirements. they are positional bonuses, in that you do more damage when it is done from a certain position. initially, the only one that had true requirements was dragoon, in that you had to have impulse drive hit from behind, otherwise none of the next moves would apply.

[Riepah]

none of the three have actual requirements. they are positional bonuses, in that you do more damage when it is done from a certain position.

Uh-huh, just like combos aren't actual "requirements", because you can just keep spamming the last strike of your combo indefinitely, without first having to execute the first two. It'll be ineffective, but hey, they aren't "requirements".

[Kaze3434]

Uh-huh, just like combos aren't actual "requirements", because you can just keep spamming the last strike of your combo indefinitely, without first having to execute the first two. It'll be ineffective, but hey, they aren't "requirements".

im trying to figure out how you missed that this is about POSITIONALS. also, really horrible leap in logic

[Viridiana]

im trying to figure out how you missed that this is about POSITIONALS. also, really horrible leap in logic

It's the exact same point. You can sit there and mash Aeolian Edge all day. The other two steps aren't required, after all. Unless, of course, you want to do competitive DPS. But if "required for competitive DPS" is what we mean by "required," then positionals are also required. Hate to break it to you.

[Adire]

none of the three have actual requirements. they are positional bonuses, in that you do more damage when it is done from a certain position. initially, the only one that had true requirements was dragoon, in that you had to have impulse drive hit from behind, otherwise none of the next moves would apply.

If you're someone who wants to do the best possible with a job, they are very much requirements. Right now NIN is designed in a way that allows it to have minimal positionals but competitive DPS. Adding positionals the job's skills will make using them the new standard for anyone who wants to put full effort into playing the job to the best of their ability, vs their ability to do that now without having to do positionals.