RIP Ninja

[silentwindfr]

snips

i don't say that this skill is bad, i'm saying that it impact is not good enough for be added like a big feature of the ninja with an expansion. like i did said, it's something that was able to be added with a patch, not an expansion.

about the fact that Monk get a new attack for burn the GL, i feel it can be interesting, especially if used correctly with the royal road of the astrologian and perfect balance... with the correct setup, the damage output earn from it will be insane. an example of setup that will recquire teamplay. (recquiring 1 astrologian, 1 ninja and 1 monk)
- First the astrologian prepare him Royal Road and get it with balance for the next draw (ok quite lucky but still), it will increase the effect of balance: +10% of damage. royal road can (depending of the card used before for boost the next draw) increase of +150% the potency of a card, increasing the damage of the target for 15-20 second of 25%
- the ninja get ready to use TA and increase the damage on the target of 10%
- the monk use the Tornado Kick (Tornado Kick - 500 potency attack that consumes 3 stacks of Greased Lightning. 60 Second Cooldown. (Off global cooldown)
) after receiving Royal Road Balance, and use perfect balance, allowing him to get back the 3 stack quite fast and return to a full burst of damage...

indeed it's a quite heavy setup and recquire luck and teamwork. but well executed, it will be devastating.

and it's one of the few use you can do with this skill. actually, if it get the damage boost from GL, it's far stronger than any attack of the game.

on other hand we did receive... i have said it before, we don't really have any synergy born from this expansion and skillset. saying that we did receive the shorthand of the stick is not a joke. it's only one of the few example of synergy born from the mechanic and gameplay added with this expansion.

even issou and musou sandan are nice, they are not representing the ninja... they mostly weaponskill... the rogue part of our gameplay. one another point Musou Sandan and issous seems to be used simply for increase easily our dps and give us huge burst. without really add mechanic that will bring something fresh and interesting. it's like a 1 button skill that will let you deal tons of damage!

it's the same about the skill for refresh Huton, why add it? if they don't give use more ninjutsu mechanic for use it with it? it's another weird way to increase our dps without add gameplay mechanic outside make us use one more skill in combo.
finally Kage-Watari, on paper it's nice add, but, i feel it's weird to add it to us. it's like try to give use an utility, for make us interesting... but, don't this skill will have been better on jobs like machinist or bard?

don't get me wrong, i don't feel that we will lacking dps, but we will lack new experience in term of gameplay, this new skill will be used, but do they will really add anything new and interesting to our jobs? do they have any logic behind it?

because soo far every add i have seen for the other jobs had a logic behind it. but when i read the skill of the ninja... i'm lost, they do'nt bring synergi, they don't offer new mechanic, they feel...weird and underwhelming, like hastly added without any concern behind what this will bring to us.

it's not later that we must say it, it's now, for they begin to think about it... because later it will be too late.

ps: i had to go check one more time what do musou sandan/issou, and i was wrong ^^

[Pluvia]

So correct me if I'm wrong we're not just getting one aggro modifying move but 2. Here is the article http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...11#post6433711
overall the Huton extender will be a decent QoL increase but the only really amazing and i mean amazing thing is the action that allows a weaponskill to hit 3 times. Overall HW can't come fast enough.

Also would of been cool if they would of put the new weaponskill off of shadowfang to make it a 3 step combo. instead of off gust slash but either way I like the look of the attack.

[Viridiana]

i don't say that this skill is bad, i'm saying that it impact is not good enough for be added like a big feature of the ninja with an expansion. like i did said, it's something that was able to be added with a patch, not an expansion.

You keep saying it's useless. A useless ability is a bad ability. A niche ability is not a bad ability, as long as the niche is somewhat common.

about the fact that Monk get a new attack for burn the GL, i feel it can be interesting, especially if used correctly with the royal road of the astrologian and perfect balance...

So, your niche use requires a party that has 3 classes in it, with some RNG, and with multiple long CDs. Mine requires very little setup. I'm not saying yours can't happen, but damn that's a lot of setup. Versus, say, smacking something a few times and transfering your enmity before you steal hate.

on other hand we did receive... i have said it before, we don't really have any synergy born from this expansion and skillset.

Right, because enmity transfer abilities are totally not synergy.

one another point Musou Sandan, is not a 3 hit attack, it's a skill added at the third position of a combo. it's flashy but exept if it dps is really high...

Not what it says here: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/125...vent-5-18-5-21

i means Aeolian Edge is already a powerfull attack at 320 potency, what will be the role of Musou Sandan? why add another skill that seems to have the same function than Aeolian Edge?

Except Musou Sandan, from the information I see, makes the WS go three times. Which is a boost of 640 potency if AE stays our most powerful WS.

what the goal of Issou? boost our weaponskill damage? but why? i means wasn't it better to offer us new mechanic tie to the ninjutsu? i means it's only a weird way to increase our damage without really add new gameplay mechanic.

Dunno, not really any info on it. A basic DPS CD is still nice, though I concede that it's not a game-changer.

it's the same about the skill for refresh Huton, why add it? if they don't give use more ninjutsu mechanic for use it with it? it's another weird way to increase our dps without add gameplay mechanic outside make us use one more skill in combo.

I mean, it does mean we get to use more damaging ninjutsu, and it means when they add in new ninjutsu (which I'm sure they eventually will) we'll get to use them often. The way it was currently set up, 3 ninjutsu a minute means they don't have room to add in new ninjutsu. Any new ninjutsu (unless tied to a 2 min or longer CD) would have to replace either Raiton (which is powerful), Suiton (which is even more powerful), or Huton (so powerful it's not going to happen). But, if they give us a mechanic to extend Huton, that means we can eventually get a second 1-minute ninjutsu to pair with Suiton. This means we can eventually have more options, which is good. Could they have done it all at once? Yes. But that doesn't mean the groundwork is bad.

finally Kage-Watari, on paper it's nice add, but, i feel it's weird to add it to us. it's like try to give use an utility, for make us interesting... but, don't this skill will have been better on jobs like machinist or bard?

Honestly, I don't think any DPS class should be without some ability to manipulate aggro or at least aggro generation. BRD, BLM, SMN (even if they don't need it at all, really), and DRG all have ways to manage their own aggro even if the tank is absolutely atrocious. Do they always need it? No. Do they always use it when they should? No. But I would have put this ability on the initial release of NIN and MNK. I wouldn't have waited until the expansion to put it on NIN, and I would certainly have put it on MNK by now (even though MNK has a slower ramp up).

don't get me wrong, i don't feel that we will lacking dps, but we will lack new experience in term of gameplay, this new skill will be used, but do they will really add anything new and interesting to our jobs? do they have any logic behind it?

Honestly, I don't particularly like the vast swings of meta involved in adding game-changing abilities at certain levels. To use BRD as an example, BRD after Wanderer's Minuet will be a fundamentally different job than before WM. If WM is a level 60 skill, that means every single non-60 instance will have BRDs playing fundamentally differently than they do at 60. That's not fun (imo), that's frustrating. I'm more happy to get nice toys to play with every few levels that give me more tools to use.

[Allyrion]

But do remember, a 4th mudra by itself, without altering anything about how mudras work right now, is adding seven new abilities to the class. The devs would be better served making a special mudra that, when combined with a very specific combo of mudra of N lengths long, would give the ninja some hyper-powerful buff or damage ability or something. That's something the devs could do that would be interesting and really feel awesome. But I digress.

I think a way to expand mudra without adding an extra would be making double tapping mudras into a ninjutsu. I know that basically removes the rabbit from 2-Mudra combinations, but I feel like we can gain a lot from that. I also agree that adding a 4th would be the wrong step because the ninjutsu might get super niche adding 7 combinations, and that's IF we don't get 4-Mudra combinations due to having 4. That would be horrible for lag.

I think double tapped mudra and maybe even 3-Mudra combinations with those might be the best way to expand ninjutsu as opposed to adding Mudra themselves.

I agree with the rest of your post.
Though I'm okay with positionals, I can understand being bothered by it when the class hasn't had any.
I think people should try it first though before being sure it'll kill the class.

Honestly, I don't particularly like the vast swings of meta involved in adding game-changing abilities at certain levels. To use BRD as an example, BRD after Wanderer's Minuet will be a fundamentally different job than before WM. If WM is a level 60 skill, that means every single non-60 instance will have BRDs playing fundamentally differently than they do at 60. That's not fun (imo), that's frustrating. I'm more happy to get nice toys to play with every few levels that give me more tools to use.

<3
I feel like the complaining that NIN isn't going to get changed is just going to make them wait till expansions to introduce new Jobs.
I want NIN to develop and get new stuff. But we are developing and, we're fairly new as well.
People may be used to expecting everyone getting the same treatment at expansions, but that's because you don't usually get a whole new class (Job) in a patch.
Change for the sake of change is bad.
There's a million things we can think of to develop NIN, but it has to be balanced in the context of the other Jobs as well and they added 3 new Jobs this expansion as well.
They can't just put in whatever cool idea comes up in their head for ninja.
It needs to sync with their class and they need to develop a cohesive design.

So I'm fine with some thoughtful new tools over rushed tacked on mechanics for the sake of equality.

why play ninja over dragoon or monk? what we had soo far was 3 jobs with different gameplay, but with positional and the ninjutsu underused, we aren't different of the dragoon or monk. before it was, if you want an heavy positional class, you go with monk. a job with a bit of positional, you will go with dragoon. and if you want a jobs without positional, it was ninja. it was the difference between the 3. no?

Underused? That's really surprising.
Ninjutsu is one of my favourite things about NIN and using it every 20 seconds is great. That's because I always considered the cooldown short for such a mechanic.
Though DRG gets Jumps on separate cooldowns, those cooldowns are very long.
Though, as Viridiana pointed out, it's the same amount that we get to use it, ours is spread much more evenly throughout the fight. I prefer that.

Though ninjutsu drew me to ninja, it was because it complimented it's actual melee skills.
The last thing I want is for ninjutsu to take over the class. It should still be an assassin, first and foremost by using its weaponskills.
The Ninjutsu add a special flavor to those assassin skills, but I don't want us to turn into Naruto ninjas (no hate or anything, but they're not real ninjas).
It should be a closer blend to the more real Ninja archetype (which is an assassin) and elemental myths that surround them.
We have that now and that's what makes the class so appealing, to me at least.

If it was just a normal assassin, I wouldn't like it. If the ninjutsu took over, I wouldn't like it either.
It sounds like you want the latter. They've done a good job of balancing the two sides and I do hope they continue to interact a little like Trick Attack and the new weaponskill that extends Fuuton.