RIP Ninja

[Allyrion]

Perhaps you should read their posts then, because most people who aren't happy with what they heard from the Live Letter do state their reasons.
It's also not so much about being worried that we'll be a lot weaker than other melees, it's about other melees getting new, awesome mechanics while we only get more of the same nerfed Raiton - and get to deal with positionals on top. NIN is the only job for which they not only didn't announce anything exciting, they even mentioned that we'll get positional requirements slapped on our skills. That part doesn't bother me much, but it's still not good news.

That's mostly just complaining about the presentation.
We don't know anything about the new weaponskills down in the video so we don't know how NIN will play post-3.0.

Secondly, why would NIN get the same treatment as every other class when it came out much more recently?
They're adding mechanics to Jobs that are 2 years old as opposed to NIN's 1 year.
They would even been already working on Heavenward by the time NIN was released, which is probably why it's been in a good place.

Even so, NIN is probably not going to get less abilities leveling up.
That means we're going to have new stuff to play with, but it might not be as mechanically ground changing because you shouldn't add mechanics just for the sake of it.

NIN has been out for ONE tier of raiding as opposed to THREE for every other class.
That's not nearly enough testing to see how the job moved and developed.
I would much rather wait so they make sure they have a cohesive design direction for NIN than them just adding stuff for the sake of it.
Because if we get rushed flawed mechanics, then we'll probably be stuck with them for a while.

I guess that's easy for me to say because I, personally, think added positionals are a good thing.

[Kaze3434]

Go watch evangela on youtube! lol what a troll. If she plays like that no wonder people think ninja sucks.

aside from the troll part, it seems Evangela is pretty bad. the whole video, i dont think i saw any katon/doton, or dots.

[TakezoKensei]

well. I feel bad for naming names. Overreaction to some toxic gameplay ive run across a lot myself lately.

[LTEvil]

well. I feel bad for naming names. Overreaction to some toxic gameplay ive run across a lot myself lately.

Hide takezo is exposing bad gameplay. We no allow criticism in ff forums. Everyone is amazing that's why coil clear rates suck remember? Lol

[Neri]

well. I feel bad for naming names. Overreaction to some toxic gameplay ive run across a lot myself lately.

That nin...really is bad. I have never seen nin perform that bad before...or was it just a troll attempt for the whole dungeon? At the end I was pretty sure it was trolling though, auto attack the boss, lb the add, dance in the middle of the arena.

I noticed the mudra sequence, it's pretty slow. Is it the mudra lag people were talking about? Is it that bad in na server that you have to input them that slow?

[AzraelX]

can i ask how adding postionals to ninja is a good thing? im just curious. isn't the long/laggy madras enough. I just hope its like 2 rear positionals.

[Allyrion]

can i ask how adding postionals to ninja is a good thing? im just curious. isn't the long/laggy madras enough. I just hope its like 2 rear positionals.

Because positionals add a 3rd dimension to melee combat, and is a great hybrid between action combat and tab-target fighting.
Because standing at the back of a mob pressing buttons on a boss and only moving for aoe is dumb when you actually have such a interesting mechanic.

Also, because I think it actually suits NIN more than any other Job.
NIN should be precise about it's attacks and movements. I can justify attacking from the flank because a ninja attacking from multiple angles is iconic.
And most importantly, why should the class with a passive movement buff be the one that sits in one place the most?
I'm fine with there being a class with no positionals for variety, but I don't think that class should ever have been NIN.
It's the fastest moving job in the game and it's the melee that stands still the most.

That's why I think positionals are a good idea.
But I don't expect everyone to agree with me.
Mudra lag only really bothers me when it's the 3-Mudra cast. Which they reduced since we won't have to re-cast Fuuton.
Suiton once a minute isn't that bad.

[Krylo]

I'm fine with there being a class with no positionals for variety, but I don't think that class should ever have been NIN.

Well, if it didn't have mudras sure.

The problem with positionals on Nin is you're either moving during your GCD or you're losing DPS to moving. Not much, but it's there. With Ninja every 8 (with no skill speed buffs/alterations) GCDs you have a choice: Delay damage to move, skip moving, or skip mudras. Putting in 2-3 mudras uses your entire GCD on inputting 3 or 4 oGCD commands using up your entire 'movement time' space. This can be gotten around with controllers or gaming mice, but I don't think MMOs, or specific classes, should be designed around the idea that you need peripherals just to get your commands in on time, but rather should be designed around a standard keyboard and mouse set up.

And, for the record, I don't even really like Nin, and much prefer playing as monk (and honestly don't even care if Ninja ends up awful). It's just an issue I see where anyone who's not using a controller or doesn't have extra buttons on their mouse for mudras is going to have a very difficult time getting into position to hit flank/back while firing off mudras. With no other class is this an issue, as there's plenty of time to tap one button and tap E/Q to sidestep around the butt corner during a single GCD, even with lots of skill speed up. But there's not enough time to tap 3 buttons and E/Q in a single GCD. Honestly, most of the time, even hitting the three clips into your next attack's timing by a fraction of a second with animation delay and what have you.

However, with Ninja designed as they are as the only class that needs to mash half a rotation into a 2.5 (or less) second window, I think they entirely should be the one class that doesn't require positionals, as they're the only class that gets the number of oGCD button presses increased to 4 or 5 (depending on which ninjitsu you're using) by having them.

[Taranok]

That's why I think positionals are a good idea.

The problem with positionals on the Ninja has more to do with the Mudra system being high-demand. Having to move around while also running Mudras is hard in and of itself, but reasonably doable.

Having to move around and then confirm attack position and then maintain the attack starts to border on the realm of insanity as far as class mechanics are concerned. It's a level of tedious that goes beyond that of the Monk to keep track of everything at that point, and the class was never designed with this concept in mind.

I agree that the Ninja having a move speed buff but being the least required to be mobile is a bit of a contradiction, but the ninjutsu system doesn't play nicely with movement to begin with. However, I don't disagree with this because of positionals, but rather because the class didn't have them to begin with, and the devs pulled a bait and switch on us.