The whole Summoner "has been re-worked" is sad

[Najara]

I actually wish Summoner was more like that with the rest of the summons.

I have to agree. This should've been the original concept, except call it Summoner Stance. Build stacks to use a special summoning move. But atleast it feels like they're getting it right now.

[Duelle]

Overarching core/emphasis has always been on grandiose summons or at least decently-powered summonable creatures.

Which made them black mages with artwork attached to their nukes instead of particle effects. The only real gameplay difference between a summoner and a black mage is that the summoner burns through MP faster for a lesser return.

Egi's been a pewny fragment of a primal & the classes design much more centered on the Summoners' magical capabilities rather than commanding on summons is where the discrepancy lies.

This was done for the sake of gameplay and mechanics. It's not as big a departure as some claims since this is in line with how Rydia, Garnet and Yuna related to summoning: each had something else they could do in combat aside from the summoning. Rydia could nuke and Yuna/Garnet could heal. Our SMN deals damage via DoTs on top of being able to summon. It follows the same paradigm as the most recognized summoners in the series.

All previous iterations of SMN in FF titles kept the core/spirit of the Job intact, this variant heavily dismantles it.

This is up for debate. Summoning is largely secondary unless you have storylines revolving around it (FFIX, FFX). Mechanically it's never been the strongest job ever because, as I said, in most FFs it's basically a black mage with artwork attached to their nukes. X, XI and XIV are outliers between the summon replacing the entire party (which won't fly in an MMORPG), the blood pact thing (which was stupidly clunky and slow), and egis as pets.

[Yukiko]

hmm... somehow i am getting a strange feeling about all of this... its like a cold shiver runs down my back...
Its not only limited to SMN, all jobs are getting "something"...

It looks like a first step towards personal limit attacks!
On SMN you clearly can see it, still not on all jobs its that clear...
However, we need more informations, currently we can just guess.

[MageBlack]

Is it just me or did it wound like what they are doing is keeping Summon 1,2,and 3 because of the roles they play but were going to add in different "skins" to the summons so you could have Summon 3 as Ramuh or Summon 1 as Shiva? i would have no problems with this as it prevents the summon bloat that would end with the community saying "Summon X summon or you are noob and booted".

[Tannlore]

So with the information that's just coming out now that the NDA on the France event is lifted...

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...twitch_stream/

There is some information here from people who got to play with summoner:

Ahk Morn is in fact: AoE, can be used every minute with dreadwyrm trance, and does around 2.7-3k dmg when it doesn't crit.

I'm waiting to see if we can get more details on some of the other abilities, but I wanted to put what I've found here so far. If anyone else finds anything let's start putting it out!

Also, he has an entire interview with Yoshi-P with details on the buffs to summoner specifically. Watch his twitch stream to get the details!

[Limecat]

Ahk Morn is in fact: AoE, can be used every minute with dreadwyrm trance, and does around 2.7-3k dmg when it doesn't crit.

[Lemuria]

Mechanically it's never been the strongest job ever because, as I said, in most FFs it's basically a black mage with artwork attached to their nukes. X, XI and XIV are outliers between the summon replacing the entire party (which won't fly in an MMORPG), the blood pact thing (which was stupidly clunky and slow), and egis as pets.

Wait wait... since when were summons ever WEAK? Okay, I'll give you Final Fantasy 12, but come on...

In most Final Fantasy games, summons are literally some of the strongest skills. Significantly more powerful than any single Black Mage nuke and significantly more utilitarian. Summons like Phoenix, which not only did considerably fire damage to your enemies but also healed and revived party members. Or Carbuncle which gave you Reflect and Regens. Summons like Ifrit and Shiva which bested any comparable fire or blizzard spell.

You can't possibly say that summons were weak with a straight face. They were not. In fact the only single instance I can see where a summon was truly 'weak' was in Final Fantasy Tactics. Their weakness wasn't their damage though, far from it, but the long cast times needed to summon. This made them less desirable since most opponents would simply move out of range.

Even in Final Fantasy XI the summons are not weak. In fact, the Summoner's raw strength is almost entirely placed in the hands of the summoned avatar, with skills like Predator Claws dealing thousands of damage and Astral Flow techniques which can either bake the area in lethal damage or render the party nigh invulnerable for a time.

Let me never hear another word about how summoners have always been 'weak'. Only the misinformed would come to that conclusion.

[Whiston]

But really, if they gave Akh Morn to the egi instead of the player character themselves, the only improvement that would stem from that would be to make all the hard core summoner fan boys wet in the panties.

Obviously SE is doing their best to keep the classes balanced and aren't bloating one class with significantly more skills than another. Would all the whiners be content if instead of casting ruin you had your egi cast, I dunno ruin?

Is the big cringe fest really all about how your casting your skills and not the pets?

I seem to get that feeling. And it has zero impact on game play, it would just be unnecessary development time wasted.

[AdamFyi]

Ahk Morn is in fact: AoE, can be used every minute with dreadwyrm trance, and does around 2.7-3k dmg when it doesn't crit.

Holy crap, that is amazing.
Anyway, as for everyone else, it seems like the Summoner rework has been somewhat confirmed.

[Whocareswhatmynameis]

But really, if they gave Akh Morn to the egi instead of the player character themselves, the only improvement that would stem from that would be to make all the hard core summoner fan boys wet in the panties.

Obviously SE is doing their best to keep the classes balanced and aren't bloating one class with significantly more skills than another. Would all the whiners be content if instead of casting ruin you had your egi cast, I dunno ruin?

Is the big cringe fest really all about how your casting your skills and not the pets?

I seem to get that feeling. And it has zero impact on game play, it would just be unnecessary development time wasted.

not really, trying to get your pet to do things is a huge pain in the butt. I'd rather have less skills on the pet and more on the summoner unless the devs gonna stop being lazy and make pet skills operate in between autoattacks. But a bahamut egi would have been so fitting and a perfect thing to give summoner. The enkindle move coulda been ahk morn and flare breath coulda been an aoe move. A cool divebomb animation could have also been a special move as well, kinda like a garuda knockback.

Since in 2.0 the main goal was tackling bahamut to save the world. Would have been nice to have his egi for 3.0 instead of this trance thing.

I am in the "we shoulda got at least one new egi" camp!!!