The whole Summoner "has been re-worked" is sad

[LTEvil]

Warlocks, no. Evoker (FFIII), yes. Keeping it Final Fantasy (and the Job name alone sounds like something the Summoners currently do). Invoke the power of Bahamut to cast Ahk Morn or something...

Take my likes. Summoner was a typo.

[Havenae]

So... Rather than listening to what basically everyone was saying, which was "We want summoners to focus more on summoning" they decided to move the job in the opposite direction?

Oh well guess I won't feel bad about shelving my summoner.

[FelixWindwright]

snip.

I don't mean to be rude, but you've take alot of what I have said out of context, which is fine perhaps I wasn't explicitly clear. I didnt say it was tearing people apart I commented that people are tearing apart the SMN changes when from a lore point of view there isn't really an issue about evoking Summoner powers. People are upset, This was never gunna make everyone happy, but if people wanna get nit picky with Evoker and Summoner, which are two parts of the same cloth as far as I am concerned then fine. However, the forum threads at this moment in time at 99% negative about Summoner changes, whereas in game I see alot of happy Summoners. I'm just representing the rest of us saying "Hey, cool idea - I'm happy about where this is going" because this viewpoint in terms of thread titles is sorely missing as we have a plethora "RIP SMN" "It's bad" etc etc.

You're honing in again on something Yoshi-P said a while back AND something he never confirmed "I think" is not "It will" it's merely hypothesizing the future which by that point was a long way off. The problem is if they put Bahamut Egi in the game they would put it at the same level as Garuda/Ifrit to be balanced then that would draw a whole new level of complaints because "Bahamut should be more powerful." So the compromise that was reached as introducing pet glamours to add more skins to pets to give the flexibility of using other primals/carbuncles as the current incarnations do cover alot of bases, which I fully support personally (but again people don't that's ok too).

End of the day the fact we even get to evoke Bahamuts power is "enough" from the reactions I've seen, but people were always going to be mixed when the class is already sitting on rocky foundations from a playerbase that doesn't like its current incarnation, thus meaning a "solution" will never be reached as everyone wants different things for "their summoner". I'm sorry people feel sad about the direction Summoner is going - I was with you guys in 2.4 saying things are pretty bad, but now SE in my view have righted wrongs and done some useful things (not just Akh Morn) like a Triple DoT applicator and adding direct damage skills - that will diversify the current SMN tool kit, while keeping it embedded in lore.

Felix Out ^^

[Lemuria]

the forum threads at this moment in time at 99% negative about Summoner changes, whereas in game I see alot of happy Summoners.
...
like a Triple DoT applicator and adding direct damage skills - that will diversify the current SMN tool kit, while keeping it embedded in lore.

A few problems here, and I'm sorry to pick your post apart like this, but it's an important distinction.

First up, in-game there are a far higher percentage of black mages than there are summoners. This is not a coincidence. It's a more rewarding job, with instant gratification from each nuke rather than the dwindling HP of our DoTs. Ruin has never and will never hit the high numbers. It's the equivalent of a White Mage Cleric using Stone spells, only weaker. We simply use it as filler while our DoT's are up. We lack the real damage needed on killing adds fast, since everything is done to the same tick.

Our pets do one third of our damage, and of them only Garuda has the highest DPS potential thanks to it directly boosting our own DoT skills. However, even then all it does is double the duration, so all it does in reality is free us up to spam more Ruin spells.

What exactly did we get which revolutionizes how we play? We get a skill which applies DoTs which we already have (albeit instantly), so basically a 'shortcut'. And a single 'nuke' which requires stacks of a new buff to even utilize. Unless this nuke is Flare level damage, which I highly doubt, this is a bit of a letdown.

Now, here's what they SHOULD have done. Add a new skill called Modus Veritas. Fans of XI will know where I'm coming from already, the rest of you can read on. This skill should DOUBLE the damage of existing DoT on the target and HALVE the remaining duration. So we can speed up kills by dealing our DoT in half the time. Then, allow this new DoT to be passed along via Bane and voila. A true-to-status-quo skill that people can get behind.

But what everyone has wanted from the start, the only thing we've all wanted, is to have a summoning job where we actually do some summoning. Egi's with unique skills that we can swap out at will so they can all contribute to a battle instead of a singular summon we keep for the entire run. People who claim it cannot be balanced simply don't understand how. It can be done, and it can be done easily.

So, while you might be all hyped up for the update and the single new skill we're getting (because really, Bahamut is the only reason anyone's remotely excited) at least understand where some of us are coming from and why we're utterly disappointed at the update. It adds very little new to the class and practically flips us the bird with regards to new summons in the future.

[FelixWindwright]

snip.

No problem Lemuria, as you might have seen in my last reply I have some sympathy with those who are not happy - and in my posts ive attempted to be as understanding to peoples anger towards the job as I can being someone who actually is fine with how the changes are going forwards into 3.0.

I would agree that the BLM popularity as you said is down to being more rewarding and i agree the current SMN in 2.X is lactlustre in comparison causing many to jump ship - it isn't ideal and SE have clearly put work into making SMN better as a class perhaps not better in a "traditional" summoner way (I'm not a dev so I cannot comment on what they have / havent tried). I didn't use the term revolutionize more from the fact I dont think it will first and foremost, but I did state from what we've seen so far they've attempted to rework skills to compliment the foundations we already have, whether they are optimal for peoples perceptions or not.

I guess in summary I'm trying to say that they've tried and we don't know everything and I understand people will be upset, but there are a fair few of us who are happy with these changes, which isn't always voiced on forums when people give feedback.

So I'm going to just leave it here in terms of replying to avoid it just turning into a back and forth between Happy vs UnHappy just wanted to put a differing perspective in comparison to the overall outcry from it, which I can understand as some people have differing ideas of what a summoner is.

[Yukiko]

Did no one thought about how we will get it?
We had to beat primals before we could use the egis, does this mean now we have to beat bahamut before we can summon a part of him?

Sorry, but for those brickwalls we have to overcome the egis are just a big joke!
Lets hope those new skills are really something, compared to other jobs SMN is not shining...

[Exodus-E]

Did no one thought about how we will get it?
We had to beat primals before we could use the egis, does this mean now we have to beat bahamut before we can summon a part of him?

Sorry, but for those brickwalls we have to overcome the egis are just a big joke!
Lets hope those new skills are really something, compared to other jobs SMN is not shining...

Two possibilities:

A) They make a story/cut-scene mode for ALL Coils (so there's an excuse as to how we get it)
B) Since it's a "trance" and not an Egi, we may get it from an another means entirely (a new location permeated with his essence?)

[Akiza]

I was the greatest proponent of Summoner changes in 2.4. People didn't switch to Black Mage from Summoner because it was easier they switched because Black Mage was simply flat out better in every way. Now with the new changes Summoner's got what it needed more direct damage which makes spell speed useful and more reliable bursts. I understand the reasoning behind the changes 2.4 story with Lady Iceheart and the method she used to summoning Shiva by channeling the essence of Shiva and summoning her led to Summoner's gaining a similar ability which gives us a bursts rotation instead of a ruin spam once aetherflow is up. Wait till E3 until they go into depth with the changes, potency and new skills then make an argument for how to improve Summoner. When u know I can't complain there is no basis for any other complaints since I was the main advocate of Summoner rework.

[Havenae]

People clearly aren't looking toward the future.

Basically is was just confirmed that summoners won't ever get new pets in the future. What they'll get is a egi glamour system, which essentially means pets will have skills that are basically generic as they'll be shared. But you'll get to change what they look like. So you can pretty much bet that if you get skins for shiva, you won't get any signature shiva abilities. If you get a leviathan skin, no signature leviathan abilities, ramuh.. Same story. Basically they just destroyed the summoning aspect of summoners. So for all the RIP <INSERT JOB NAME>, this is where is truly fits.


That plus we get fucked out of another ability. Tridisaster will cast spells we already have for us... Gee way to skimp.

For a company that can make some amazing games SE's developers can be pretty damn dense at times.

[Arkann]

People clearly aren't looking toward the future.

So you can pretty much bet that if you get skins for shiva, you won't get any signature shiva abilities. If you eat leviathan, no signature leviathan abilities, ramuh.. Same story. Basically they just crushed the summoning aspect of summoning. So for all the RIP <INSERT JOB NAME>, this is where is truly fits.

Yeah. It's so OBVIOUS that if we can glamour Ifrit into Shiva, she will still use fire attacks... :eyeroll: