RIP WHM/SCH

[desufin]

I think you'll find that on paper WHM is getting the ability to DPS just as well, potentially, better than SCH. They're getting more DPS abilities with DoT effects, and instant low potency cure spells. Depending on how often you can use them, WHM could even become better at DPSing than SCH. If they gave WHM more mitigation on top of that, then they would literally be the perfect healers. Access to strong single target / AoE heals, HoTs, mitigation, instant heals and good DPS options.

It seems like the healer jobs are all going to have a lot of tools to do most things, so will most likely be perfectly balanced. I don't understand why WHMs want more on top of what you've already been given. Sure, SCH got AoE heals, but as a SCH main I'm not even happy about that. It's not meant to be our game to AoE heal, and it's taking some uniqueness away from both SCH and WHM. But then you guys could potentially be getting our DPS. It's give and take with both jobs, and quite frankly I don't see the need to get so defensive over this when we still have a lot to find out about all jobs.

Just like you are groaning about having more healing options as a SCH (whyever), some WHM are groaning about having more DPS options (whyever). However despite having more DPS options, it's already a very clear and obvious fact RIGHT NOW that WHM and DPS don't go too well together because of MP issues. Having more dps tools that will cost even more MP will only further expand upon this if there are no changes to how WHM mp is right now.
SCH is already in an amazingly good place when it comes to MP, except when healing under pressure which surprise, the new healing abilities look to help out with. You can't say "it's not meant to be our game to X" because it was teh community that decided SCH dps AND heal because well, they perfectly well can. WHM can not currently and they are getting SOME help on that but until we see some major improvements in MP management for WHM, it will never be as good as SCH. It simply wont happen.

When it comes to damage mitigation, the whole point is still PICK ANY HEALER YOU LIKE, Supervirus prevents that choice. Any group that will not have a SMN or SCH in it will suffer, greatly, while any group that does have a SCH (or SMN) will have a major advantage. It's incredibly simple to see, it's not like I'm asking WHM to have every mitigation tool SCH has, nor that AST should have it, I'm saying WHM -AND- AST should have Supervirus. That's it, nothing else.



If you still don't think Supervirus is that important, you clearly don't know what you are arguing for or against and should just quit. As long as supervirus is a thing that is exclusive to SCH among healers, people will be forced to have a SCH in their groups.

[Yona87]

Why should there be a healer balance? I like the way it is.

[VanilleFang]

Why should there be a healer balance? I like the way it is.

So balanced. Exactly.

[Velox]

So balanced. Exactly.

It's balanced right now, however, we can deduce that if these changes have to be made for the sake of balance, then AST must be absolutely amazing at being the jack-of-all trades job (enough that it would put both SCH and WHM out of commission without alterations to the established system).

[desufin]

Why should there be a healer balance? I like the way it is.

Because it's balanced right now by the simple fact that we have two healer spots and only two healers. SE changed this by adding a new healer and went further on this by saying "hey Proshell needs to be base now for healer balance". That was a mistake. If they want to retain balance, there's more that needs to be baseline than simply Proshell, Supervirus being far more important than Proshell.

But you and Kabzy don't seem to understand the point of balance. This isn't a WHM vs. SCH utility thing, this is a thing SE started and need to see through properly unless they are lying and actually want SCH to be core in every group and not that people should take whichever they prefer.

[File2ish]

Why should there be a healer balance? I like the way it is.

Adding a 3rd healing job presents more variables to maintain balance. At current, WHM and SCH compliment each other fairly well with pure heals/HoT and shields respectively. Though SCH is still arguably better because of mitigation (saying as a whm main).

Adding Astrologian disrupts this, especially considering the limited information they recently told us concerning new job abilities for WHM/SCH and that AST can switch between heal/barrier stance.

Now in order to maintain a healer balance they need to tweak 3 jobs instead of 2. Certain abilities may have made one healer job necessary to high end content, they want all 3 to be viable in these situations therefore they have to blur the lines some.

[Kabzy]

But you and Kabzy don't seem to understand the point of balance. This isn't a WHM vs. SCH utility thing, this is a thing SE started and need to see through properly unless they are lying and actually want SCH to be core in every group and not that people should take whichever they prefer.

And I think you fail to understand that it's completely irrelevant talking about healer balance at this point. Let us continue this conversation when we have our jobs at lv60 and actually know more about the role. Right now it's just unnecessary crying for Supervirus because you guys lost Proshell. We have absolutely no idea how this is going to effect the healers, or what CNJ will get in return. This is a pointless discussion.

[Harper]

Not sure how it's going to change things, but there will be a lot of Astros once the expac hits and then slowly they will equal out to sch and whm. I am not worried about our other healing classes for now, anyways. I think all 3 will have a "niche" healing even though the Astro may have a stake in both types, people will either love them or hate them because they are too complicated to play.

I do feel it will make it a struggle since there are only 2 healing spots on the raids, but on the larger raids all will be welcomed I am sure. That is my only concern.

[dvoraen]

The more I think about it, the more I think the new SCH abilities are aimed at "double-SCH in Duty Finder" issues. But just to itemize:

Emergency Tactics - I may have missed a post saying so, but if this works with Succor too, isn't this exactly what SCH needs?!

Deployment Tactics - Jury's still out. It depends on whether a crit-Adlo's full shield bonus transfers or not, or if it's the 'base' shield amount, as if it had not crit. (If it does transfer the double shield, hooboy.) I'm not really sure what the point of transferring Eye for an Eye all over the place is, as of yet, short of PVP and sharing with the OT. Spreading Virus/Fever, on the other hand...!

Dissipation - If this works the way I suspect (think Divine Seal, or reverse Rouse), go back to the bit about Emergency Tactics uses.

Mystery Attack - This better be an AE that doesn't need Aetherflow. :|

Indomitability - Jury's out until we know exactly what it does, and if it requires Dissipation to be cast. The benchmark video seemed to imply that it did not (there was a Selene hovering nearby when it was used).

[Nihility]

The more I think about it, the more I think the new SCH abilities are aimed at "double-SCH in Duty Finder" issues. But just to itemize:
Emergency Tactics - I may have missed a post saying so, but if this works with Succor too, isn't this exactly what SCH needs?!

Deployment Tactics - Jury's still out. It depends on whether a crit-Adlo's full shield bonus transfers or not. (If so, hooboy.) I'm not really sure what the point of transferring Eye for an Eye all over the place is, as of yet, short of PVP and sharing with the OT. Spreading Virus/Fever, on the other hand...!

Dissipation - If this works the way I suspect (think Divine Seal), go back to the bit about Emergency Tactics uses.

Mystery Attack - This better be an AE that doesn't need Aetherflow. :|

Indomitability - Jury's out until we know exactly what it does, and if it requires Dissipation to be cast. The benchmark video seemed to imply that it did not (there was a Selene hovering nearby when it was used).

the description they posted for emergency tactics specifically says adloquiem, so for now that is how it should be treated. Also, it sounds like it is a duration buff and not a stance so you may be looking at like a 1-2 minute cooldown for 10-15s of it or even just next adloquiem. but since the description just says it converts the shield into healing it should be assumed that the crit bonus is still in effect and with the shield converted it's bigger than a cure 2 and a crit your basically looking at 900 potency x1.5

for deployment tactics, the shield adloquiem gives is the same buff regardless of if it's a crit or not. So once you use deployment tactics having the game like skip back in time to decide if it was a crit and then "uncrit" the buff doesn't make any sense. The most likely result will be whatever amount of adloquiem is on the target when the spell is cast down to the time left on it will be replicated and same with eye for an eye. The benefit of eye for an eye is if you have it on 8 people during an aoe your chance of putting it on the target should be very good, the pvp usage seems pretty obvious as well.

Dissipation just says "increases spell power" there are not many situations I can see where having a fairy out is not ideal so it's use will probably just be limited to eating a fairy that is about to die then carry the self buff until you can conveniently summon again. Or it might even mean spell power in a purely offensive manner and be some sort of dps mode for scholar

indomitability was described as a companion heal to compensate for succor's limited healing which is basically saying "medica clone" to me. now if it's an Aether flow that is free and instant cast or a normal spell is the only real mystery in my mind