More complex rotations with Heavensward

[Yoohre_WildRiver]

YOU HAVE STANCE DANCE! AND YOU HAVE STANCE DANCE! EVERYONE HAVE STANCE DANCE!!!!

look..

We can [Stance]dance if we want to
We can leave your friends behind
Cause your friends don't [Stance]dance
And if they don't [Stance]dance
Well they're no friends of mine

[Allyrion]

Stance dancing has always been the best way to reduce button bloat.
You can have one button that changes 15 others into a different skill set.
Or at the very least, how they gets used.

It also allows for more intuitive ability designs and coupling.

[silentwindfr]

i'm more bothered by the fact to add positionning into ninja.... i means with the mudra and it lag, add positionning will make it quite a hard time. especially with the new cycle. it will be like:
i do my cycle and move from side to back, time for ninjutsu (break of the movement), return to the positionning, repeat.

it's not fluid and feel weird. if the mudra wasn't that much laggy and uncertain why not.... but personally add too much positionning to the ninja will make people more to forget the ninjutsu. since ninjutsu is not something you only press one button, but often it's 4 skill to launch in a right order. i'm for make the cycle more interesting, but i'm not sure the positioning wasn't the solution for the ninja. indeed we are more efficient while standing behind, but we had to go behind every 60 second, it was easy to do it. but imagine if you must change of position every 2 second for place your next hit.

other point, why add position to the ninja, while taking it out from the dragoon? i fail to see what they try to achieve from this. maybe they try to make the jobs more dificult, when the ninja is already the jobs with the most imput per cycle (since every ninjutsu is 4 imput) without forget that we had the cycle the less fluid because of the mudra lag. anyway, i will wait to see it into the game... but i really feel that the positioning was the easy way to add more stuff to the ninja, instead to work around the ninjutsu and add more deeps to the game play. like said i'm happy that they have think to a way to add more time to Huton, but that don't change the fact that we will mostly use 3 ninjutsu: huton, Suiton and Raiton. (Katon in rare occasion) instead to give more utility to the present ninjutsu and make them usefull .... they have add position to the weapon skill, the part the less fluid of our cycle.

[Allyrion]

i'm more bothered by the fact to add positionning into ninja.... i means with the mudra and it lag, add positionning will make it quite a hard time. especially with the new cycle. it will be like:
i do my cycle and move from side to back, time for ninjutsu (break of the movement), return to the positionning, repeat.

it's not fluid and feel weird. if the mudra wasn't that much laggy and uncertain why not.... but personally add too much positionning to the ninja will make people more to forget the ninjutsu. since ninjutsu is not something you only press one button, but often it's 4 skill to launch in a right order. i'm for make the cycle more interesting, but i'm not sure the positioning wasn't the solution for the ninja. indeed we are more efficient while standing behind, but we had to go behind every 60 second, it was easy to do it. but imagine if you must change of position every 2 second for place your next hit.

other point, why add position to the ninja, while taking it out from the dragoon? i fail to see what they try to achieve from this. maybe they try to make the jobs more dificult, when the ninja is already the jobs with the most imput per cycle (since every ninjutsu is 4 imput) without forget that we had the cycle the less fluid because of the mudra lag. anyway, i will wait to see it into the game... but i really feel that the positioning was the easy way to add more stuff to the ninja, instead to work around the ninjutsu and add more deeps to the game play. like said i'm happy that they have think to a way to add more time to Huton, but that don't change the fact that we will mostly use 3 ninjutsu: huton, Suiton and Raiton. (Katon in rare occasion) instead to give more utility to the present ninjutsu and make them usefull .... they have add position to the weapon skill, the part the less fluid of our cycle.

I'm personally happy about the added positioning.
I think it's a good change but only because they said you can keep Fuuton up with weaponskills.
3-Mudra combinations are where you feel the lag, and if it's only Suiton then it's manageable.

But that also simplifies the rotation so positioning adds back in an extra dynamic.
I've always loved positionals. And I like NIN for a lot of other reasons, but missed that aspect from MNK.
Honestly, having one positional feels more like a chore when the rest of your moves aren't.
But on Monk, it's a more interesting dynamic that makes your rotation 3 dimensional.

And they're not taking away positions from DRG, last I heard.
They're making them like MNK where they have reduced potency when you're not in position, but the ability(and effect) still goes off and your combo continues.
I'm going to assume that will be the case for NIN, as well.
Positionals that break a combo if missed are clunky, I can agree with that.

The Ninjutsu are already interesting, but most of our damage and time is still in weaponskills.
I feel like adding positions to those during Ninjutsu downtime will make the class more interesting.
Especially with the Fuuton change.

[silentwindfr]

I'm personally happy about the added positioning....

while the live letter Yoshida did said it that it was feeling too easy and was needed to make position part of the ninja, i'm ok with this, but like said, the cycl is already one of the heavier and the less fluid of the whole game. we do have the most input, the most crancky with duration of the dot and the mudra lag that make it wierd sometimes.

where with the other you can put a normal cycle that will repeat after 10-15 input max, with the ninja it's not stable before 30 input. your cycle need to take in consideration 3 ninjutsu, only this give use around 12 input and it's a cycle of 60 second. actually it's not true, it's two cycle that collide with each other, we do have the weaponskill from the rogue and the ninjutsu from the ninja. you can make it work, but in the end with the mudra lag, it's impossible to make a clear cycle like other class. often i'm forced to either drop one ninjutsu or break a combo for put back a dot.

the reason? the two dot we have have different timer:
-mutilate for 30 sec (with passive)
-shadowfang for 18 sec.

we tend to get close of 2 second for the gcd, but we are never at this.... meaning get to that point to keep the two dot up, plus the mudra lag make the whole stuff a pain! into this, they want to add position, when our mind need to remember which mudra we did launch and where we are into the cycle, it's stupid! it's the easy way to add more complexity to the ninja. instead to give us acces to new weaponskill and give more utility to the whole ninjutsu (outside of suiton/huton/raiton) for make the whole cycle more fluid.... they did decide that we need to be like the other dps and add position. when it was one of the particularity of the rogue. a lot of the other class did complain that it was unfair, but they never mention all the trouble about the mudra lag or the cycle that is a pain to make work.

personally i will have add more ninjutsu and who know reduce the timer for make it part of the whole cycle, make the two set of power work together, not against each other. like add ninjutsu that can be added into combo, indeed it will have become complex, but by using this wisely it will have give far more deepth than positioning.

ps: another point extremely important, positioning only work in group, when the monster is looking at you it's pointless. and when the monster run around, it's the same, you don't have the monster always to one point waiting to be backstab...

[Sapphic]

Well the thing is, we have Alexander normal which everyone will expect to be able to clear and farm. Yet, going on previous info it isn't going to be faceroll content, but more mid tier difficulty. Add in those who can't even figure out what their abilities do at level going into Alex normal witha more complex rotation. They aren't going to just fail, they are going to fail hardcore.

Concerning thing is they will turn to forums demanding nerfs for the above reasons, and due to past history, SE have given in eventually.

There is a demographic that have been hoping for something between the easy 4 man dungeons and the raids. Alex normal, should be fitting that need. But with the present trend of player abilities of handling their roles and the nerfing to cater to them.

Recipe for disaster. Unless SE stands up and says "NOPE!"

[Imoye]

If you look at WoW, basically everyone's complaining that the game has become too easy and stripped off any complexity. So I definitely think creating more complex rotations in the way to go. It's really not hard at all though, so it kind of makes you question the type of player who would complain about it.

[Yoohre_WildRiver]

i imagine HW as the 1.0 whe should have gotten on release. 2.0 help easy the curve for new comers to the FF rpg and MMO genre and now that they have been playing for a while they are ready for the real thing!.

[Zumi]

It will be the same as it is now. People who don't do the optimal rotation will do less dps. Nothing will change in HW.

[Arkenne]

Im more worried as of how will I set my keys :v