Wolves' Den PvP Tournament - The Great Aether Cup

[Ayerro]

So one totally related post is spamming... really?

Who are the others who think what I did was rude? They aren't speaking up. Or are they ones just silently clicking "like" on your posts?

There were three huge posts before you condensed it.

The point in calling out more people?

I'm dipping out of this because we digressed to the point of calling out people who don't want to speak up. At this point, there really is no relevance to the topic.

[Logos]

There were three huge posts before you condensed it.

The point in calling out more people?

I'm dipping out of this because we digressed to the point of calling out people who don't want to speak up. At this point, there really is no relevance to the topic.

I explained why it was three posts. I did not remove any words when I condensed them into one post.

You said there were others who thought what I did was rude, so I was wondering if that is the truth, or just something you made up.

5) My first post was a suggestion to take matters privately, but you took it as a passive-aggressive post. Mirrors don't do that.

I just assumed you would be more open to see how voicing an opinion after an event has started could be rude.

Your first post:

You guys should discuss this somewhere else. `-` This looks like a completed event thread; It's a little rude to bombard it after people worked hard to even set this up in the first place. I understand that the concern could be genuine, but this discussion can really be better thought out elsewhere.

It did not specifically suggest to take matters privately, and passive-aggressively used "a little rude to bombard" to politely try to hide the emotions you let out later in the thread. Also, the event has not started, in fact it does not start for about a month. No other teams except for the original poster's team have even registered. I just had to correct you on those points.

I agree that this is getting off topic. Let's get this back on topic.

You continue to say the event was already created. Does that mean the rules are set in stone and not up for public discussion?

[Ayerro]

I explained why it was three posts. I did not remove any words when I condensed them into one post.

You said there were others who thought what I did was rude, so I was wondering if that is the truth, or just something you made up.

I agree. Let's get this back on topic.

You continue to say the event was already created. Does that mean the rules are set in stone and not up for public discussion?

Those who are secretly liking my posts are likely the ones who also share my opinion, as well as those liking yours.

I'll clarify:
Discussion would be spam in context, and a discussion like the rule change would involve many people as seen presently. I suggested taking it privately because what comes with a discussion is the incorporation of anyone who has anything to say about the topic. Especially for a rule change such as the one you brought up, I wouldn't be surprised if it went on for pages and if it did, it would look unprofessional and badly thought-up especially on the creators' side. This wasn't created by one person but by many who've contributed their thoughts, though one person is representing it's creation.

That is not my decision and I'm participating solely as a player in this tournament. The person representing this event seems more than willing to hear what you and others have to say, but the option for the Aether Skype group might be more sensible. You would be able to be a spokesperson for those who don't want to speak up in a setting with others who want to have a sincere discussion that doesn't turn into a heated debate on what's better.

[CeveArthu]

Honestly logos i dont see how its an advantage, our team currently only has one benched player and thats me

I only play white mage (the only other class i have is ninja, which is unplayable due to lag), have something like 10-15% of the total matches played that everyone else has and I'm on twice to three times the ping of everyone else because i live on the other side of the planet to you

I mean come on man, if you really think a 200 ping white mage that constantly has issues with oGCDs not going off is an advantage, just say so.

[Blubbers]

Hey all,

I am planning on reaching out to all of the teams I know over the next few days to solicit feedback over the tournament. Nothing will be off the table in these discussions and I would like open honest feedback from all. I will make an update post and update the original post as well when I'm done.

I would like to let everyone know that I've enjoyed being part of the Den community over the past few weeks, and I agreed to host this event as a way to try to give back to everyone I have shared these experiences with.

My team is far from one of the best, but we've enjoyed all our matches against every person on Aether that has posted on this forum. Whether we're getting wrecked by Ultros' group, getting steam rolled by the Goblin crew (plus holic!), or getting absolutely destroyed by Balmung or Sargatanas, it's been fun, especially when we get that rare victory.

I've gotten to know a lot of you decently well through the solo queue events and hanging out on team speak and I think you're all great. I want to make this event something people are looking forward to and if there's no appetite for it in it's current form, I am open to changing it.

I acknowledge both side's arguments here on the subs. My own selfish preference for allowing subs is that a member of my core group has a sick family member and he has a hard time committing to anything. Often for raiding things come up suddenly, and even for this event he said he should be free but he can't guarantee he'll be free the whole time. He's a good friend an an important member of our group, I wouldn't feel right excluding him, and while I've only listed 4 members for my team, I had a few people in mind I was going to speak with about being alternates. If I'm not allowed to have an alternate ready, there is a very real possibility I may be disqualified from my own event.

At the same time, I acknowledge the issues raised here. The FF14 PvP community is not as big as we all wish it was. Some teams are just barely putting together groups of 4 as is, and the best solution in an ideal world might not be best for this particular tournament.

Everyone here shares a passion for both this game and the Wolves' Den. The only reason we get so fired up is because we care about this, and as a community we're way better off together and unified then divided. I'm looking forward to talking with you all over the next couple days and I'm hoping we can come up with an event everyone is excited about

[Logos]

I acknowledge both side's arguments here on the subs. My own selfish preference for allowing subs is that a member of my core group has a sick family member and he has a hard time committing to anything. Often for raiding things come up suddenly, and even for this event he said he should be free but he can't guarantee he'll be free the whole time. He's a good friend an an important member of our group, I wouldn't feel right excluding him, and while I've only listed 4 members for my team, I had a few people in mind I was going to speak with about being alternates. If I'm not allowed to have an alternate ready, there is a very real possibility I may be disqualified from my own event.

At the same time, I acknowledge the issues raised here. The FF14 PvP community is not as big as we all wish it was. Some teams are just barely putting together groups of 4 as is...

Hi Blubbers. Let me thank you again for setting this up and being patient, neutral and rational in your responses.

I have another suggestion, and I will bring this up in private with the creators of the tournament too -- a middle ground change to the rules that solves most of the issues people are bringing up. Allow teams to have 5 players, but still change the rule so that teams can only freely swap jobs between matches, not players. The 5th player will be solely a back-up who can sub in if and only if one of the original players on the 4 player team absolutely cannot continue to play. The example you gave about needing to leave because of a sick family member is a good illustration of where this swap may be necessary. Otherwise, the teams of 4 must stay with the 4 that they play the first match of the tournament with, for the entire tournament. If the swap with the 5th player becomes necessary and is done, the original player who had to leave is not allowed to swap back in, and the team must finish the tournament with the rep. Teams that lost more than 2 players over the course of the tournament, or teams that swap in their 5th player without absolute necessity, will be disqualified. We will have to define together what "absolute necessity" entails in this case.

This would solve my issues with the rules, it would allow for more inclusion (Astrapls' concern), and it would hold up to the original intention of the rule, which was to allow for teams to continue playing in the tournament if one of their players cannot make it or absolutely cannot continue at some point during the tournament.

What do you think of this suggestion?

[Blubbers]

snip

Your suggestion would certainly work for me, I think we can workshop it to come up with a solution that everyone is happy with. I'll use it as a starting point tonight when I talk with some of the other groups on skype (it's probably more efficient if that's where i discuss it with them just so we can get this figured out ASAP). It sounds like with that change your group would feel a lot more comfortable entering?

As a quick side note, I think my group of 4 is going to start ramping up our training next week. The current groups I've fought with before can look forward to me pestering you guys for matches, and if any other groups want to get some practice runs in feel free to contact me on reddit or skype (skype name = Blubbers_).

[Clessx]

So much complaining. Pvp in this game is dying and now that we have a chance to make the pvp community grow, thanks to the awesome effort of blubbers, all I see is people pointing out flaws and complaining.
If you guys truly call yourself pvp'ers you should put all your effort to make this thing happen and not make excuses.

You guys are failing to see that this is about having fun and helping the pvp community.
Heck I won't even participate, if that is an issue, so we can get this thing going. All I want is for the pvp community in this game to not die.

[Logos]

So much complaining. Pvp in this game is dying and now that we have a chance to make the pvp community grow, thanks to the awesome effort of blubbers, all I see is people pointing out flaws and complaining.
If you guys truly call yourself pvp'ers you should put all your effort to make this thing happen and not make excuses.

Is it a competitive tournament we are talking about? If so, people should discuss concerns they have about the rules with the intention of fairness, true or false? Yours is just another attempt to label us as complainers and skirt the issue. What do you think about the rules as they stand of 6 player teams with the ability to freely swap out team members in between matches, and the possibility of changing the rules to 4 player teams with only the ability to freely swap out jobs?

[Clessx]

Is it a competitive tournament we are talking about? If so, people should discuss concerns they have about the rules with the intention of fairness, true or false? Yours is just another attempt to label us as complainers and skirt the issue. What do you think about the rules as they stand of 6 player teams with the ability to freely swap out team members in between matches, and the possibility of changing the rules to 4 player teams with only the ability to freely swap out jobs?

Every single online tourney I have seen has this kind of rules. It is completely normal. Also you seem to be demanding more than suggesting, implying your team won't participate if rules don't go as you want them to be, missing out the fact that this is for the community and not for honor and glory.
As I said, I am willing to step out so we can get this going. That means my team won't be able to freely swap since no other range dps.
Any more complains now?