Wolves' Den PvP Tournament - The Great Aether Cup

[Ayerro]

You just couldn't resist taking more shots... well, so be it.

1) That does not mean discussion is not allowed or warranted.

2) Nowhere in the original post does it say "do not discuss" here. You aren't the forum dictator, moderator, or even the original poster.

3) So you agree the teams should be 4 player, no subs? If so, that is more evidence we should change the rule, or at least have a legitimate vote. Just because you tell me to take it privately doesn't make it the right thing to do.

4) I did not "shove" my opinion. I put plenty of time into that post, choosing the right words, giving reasons to back up my suggestions. I did not know the post could be edited after the fact to surpass the character limit, so I condensed the three posts into one post. I care about fairness. Do not tell me what to do; there is nothing more rude than that. And again, you are not the forum queen. Discussion forums are made for discussion.

5) I am just returning what you are giving me. I started out with a rational, objective post about concerns I (and others) have about the rules. You called me "rude" and continued on that track instead of putting any effort into offering any rational, objective input or criticism. I am just like a mirror, showing you what you are putting out.

"idgaf" -- your continued defensive reactions suggest differently!

1) Doesn't mean it's not rude either.

2) No where in the post does it say "discuss here." It's an implied courtesy to refrain from trying to change an event that has been created already. I fail to understand why that's so hard to understand.

3) Yes. I want 4man teams with no substitutes. I've said that in private chat where it belongs.

4) You did, but as you said, that's alright. I was just suggesting you take it privately, but I can't stop you. Not shoving an opinion begins with "would you like to hear what I have to say" whereas shoving an opinion begins with "I have a problem with..."

5) My first post was a suggestion to take matters privately, but you took it as a passive-aggressive post. Mirrors don't do that.

We're both explicating each others' sentences and our argument about how to go about things isn't relevant to PVP. I just assumed you would be more open to see how voicing an opinion after an event has started could be rude.

[Ippiki]

No 1v1 bracket?

[Atreus]

Logos voiced a concern without being rude, I fail to see the problem. Not gonna lie, I'm super turned off to the idea of this after reading those responses. Good luck!

[Ayerro]

I voiced my concern without being rude as well.

[Atreus]

Not really, no.

[Ayerro]

o?

"Please take this privately because I, along with a few others, found it rude to spam an already-created event with 'your event has some major issues.'" <--- My post

"You're emotional but that's because your team needs the OP rules." <--- Logos' reply

[Logos]

"...I, along with a few others, found it rude to spam...

So one totally related post is spamming... really?

Who are the others who think what I did was rude? They aren't speaking up. Or are they ones just silently clicking "like" on your posts?

[Astrapls]

I'm not really seeing the issue with having 6 player teams. A team of 4 has similar advantages as a team of 6, perhaps even moreso in some ways. By not swapping out members, there is no need to rebuild team synergy between the rotating players. To claim it gives them an unfair advantage is disingenuous, as every single team is eligble to have 6 players. Maybe you don't have the people to field a 6 man team, and that's ok. A single player can play every job in the game, so any team still has the option of any composition. This means that the playing field is still level. You could also argue that not everyone has all jobs leveled, but if we compare this to sports, not every professional sports player have the same skill level. That's like saying every football team has to have equally skilled players to be fair to each other.

Allowing 6 man teams makes the tournament more inclusive and allows more people to participate who may not be able to get together another 4 man team. You might even have one or two friends who want to play, as well. The 6 man teams is an established rule and has worked well for reoccurring tournaments on JP data centers. Keep in mind that this is an MMO, a game to play with friends.

Those extra players could be part of another team, which would help get more competition going ~

As for having the other two players join or form other teams, that's not really fair to them. You can't force people to team up with others if they don't want to.

[heiligeharmonie]

You could also argue that not everyone has all jobs leveled, but if we compare this to sports, not every professional sports player have the same skill level. That's like saying every football team has to have equally skilled players to be fair to each other.
.

Going to piggy back off the sports comparison for a second--its more common for team based sports to have extra players to sub in for one reason or another, be it tactical or because a player can no longer play, than to not. If it's done irl, why not here?

[Logos]

(snipped)

Thank you for responding objectively to the concerns I raised. I understand the points you are making, but respectfully disagree on some of them. Team synergy would not necessarily need to be rebuilt if the players are already used to playing with the rest of the team when they swap in and out, so that is kind of a moot point. Every single team IS eligible to have 6 players, but how many teams are there reading this thread who actually are able to take advantage of this rule? I only know of one team, the team who wrote the rules for the tournament and put it together, who is able to and will take full advantage of that rule and find other competitive players to fill a team of 6. Other teams, correct me if I am wrong about that.

A single player can play every job in the game, but people very typically have a main job they focus on the most. Having access to 6 players allows for more people who "main" certain jobs to swap in and out to counter other party compositions. For example, lets say the dps of one team was monk & summoner with a white mage healer, and the other team had ninja & summoner with a scholar healer. The first team only has 4 players (because wolves den is pretty dead and it was not possible to find extra competitive players), and those are their main jobs, so they stick with that composition. The other team has 6 players, and the two in reserve are a bard main and a dragoon main, so they swap in those dps to counter-comp the other team. That seems unfair to me. If the summoner main in team two switched to bard, and the ninja main to dragoon (instead of swapping other players out), they most likely would not be as good/intricate on those secondary jobs as those other players who main those jobs, so counter-comp would be much more of a challenge. See what I mean? Now if one player is a beast at two jobs, that should be rewarded, because they have the skill to be that focused and effective on two different jobs. So why not level the playing field by just allowing people in 4 player teams to switch jobs, and not switch actual players who main different jobs?