[dev1134] Combine all instead of spliting?!

[Cycloptichorn]

No, I'm sure there are other people who spend their time fretting over how people they've never met are doing things differently. I'm sure it's terribly distressing. But if you're spending time and effort worrying about how much time other people spend playing videogames, then maybe you shouldn't be lecturing other people on the most effective ways to spend their time. On a videogame forum. On the internet.

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have been a little sloppy there.

See, you thought that I was fretting when in fact I was expressing disdain. It takes me almost no time whatsoever, so I don't think there's any reason for you to be concerned as to whether or not it's an effective use of my time.

I don't want our game designed around the needs of those who are addicted to it. It's a profoundly dumb way to design a game, and it doesn't work for the majority of users. The current system of leves isn't effective for most users. The system they are suggesting would be FAR more effective for most users than the current one; the pushback from hyper-addicts to the game deserves pushback from the rest of us who cheer on the changes they are making.

Yes, it's just a game. Obviously. But SE should want people to want to play their game 24/7. That should be SE's goal. To give players a reason to log in and spend all their free time running around Eorzea.

I disagree, and so does SE. You should take a minute next time you log in to actually read the message that pops up when you begin the game; yaknow, the one that SPECIFICALLY WARNS YOU not to play 24/7. That says not to forget your friends, family and work.

So if you're suggesting that SE shouldn't worry about implementing enough content to entertain players who want to play every day, then I sincerely hope SE doesn't follow your advice.

Changing the rate at which Leves accrue has nothing to do with adding content. They aren't adding OR subtracting content by doing this; they are merely changing the way content accrues. And it falls right in line with their stated overall strategy of making Leves less important to the game overall.

a) With fewer leves, it's going to take longer to rank up to 50;

So what? There's nothing to do at 50 that you can't do at a lower rank already.

b) Reducing the number of leves is going to reduce the amount of available content.

They aren't reducing the number of leves, just changing the rate at which they accrue.

Yes, we're still free to do other things, like grind or explore or whatever. But my chief complaint about the game since CE release has been a lack of content. Reducing the number of leves reduces the amount of content available.

No, it doesn't.

1.19 will apparently include additional content, which will hopefully offset this loss somewhat. And I understand they're trying to bend the focus of the game away from leves. And I also understand that folks like you and Bigcatman are unlikely to be able to do 16 leves every 36 hours.

You're incorrect about that, at least for me. There are MANY times in which I could do 16 leves in 36 hours. There are days in which I can do 16 leves in 10 hours. But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

The new system allows for me to store the leves up for when I do have time. I WILL be able to do 16 leves in 10 hours once the new system drops - and what more, those can be ALL combat or ALL crafting or ALL gathering. The proposed system offers significantly more flexibility for all players. Let's not give SE crap just b/c a few people will have their addiction impacted - slightly.

But I'd respectfully submit that the amount of time you can spend on a game shouldn't be the outer limit for everyone. In fact, it might even be a good thing for everyone -- including you and Bigcatman -- if the game offered enough stuff to do that even hardcore gamers could log on an enjoy it.

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content. And I would submit that our 'hardcore' players are going to love the change as well, once they get used to it.

[VydarrTyr]

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have been a little sloppy there.

See, you thought that I was fretting when in fact I was expressing disdain. It takes me almost no time whatsoever, so I don't think there's any reason for you to be concerned as to whether or not it's an effective use of my time.

Oh, well, that definitely changes things. You have expressed disdain for people who waste their time playing videogames by posting a wall of text on an internet forum about a videogame. No, wait. I guess my point still stands.

I don't want our game designed around the needs of those who are addicted to it. It's a profoundly dumb way to design a game, and it doesn't work for the majority of users. The current system of leves isn't effective for most users. The system they are suggesting would be FAR more effective for most users than the current one; the pushback from hyper-addicts to the game deserves pushback from the rest of us who cheer on the changes they are making.

So if I can manage to do 16 leves every 36 hours -- which takes maybe 3 hours -- then I'm a "hyper-addict"? Ok, doctor. I'll be sure and give your medical opinion its due consideration.

And while I appreciate that it's very, very easy -- and probably even comforting -- to just assume that everyone who makes different choices than you is afflicted with a personality disorder, that's a very self-centered view of the world.

Changing the rate at which Leves accrue has nothing to do with adding content. They aren't adding OR subtracting content by doing this; they are merely changing the way content accrues. And it falls right in line with their stated overall strategy of making Leves less important to the game overall.

Well, that's a fancy little bit of wordplay. I like how you called it "changing the rate at which leves accrue" rather than "reducing the rate at which leves accrue." Super tricky, that. Do you work in politics?

Reducing the rate at which leves accrue reduces the amount of stuff that people can do in the game. And that's the point. We want more stuff to do in the game.

SE acknowledges that there's just not much to do in the game right now. They're working on increasing the amount of stuff to do in the game (i.e., "content"). But given the current dearth of content, and the fact that SE is trying to increase the amount of content, it seems counter-productive to reduce the number of available activities.

So what? There's nothing to do at 50 that you can't do at a lower rank already.

As I said, there's a lack of content. Glad we agree on that.

They aren't reducing the number of leves, just changing the rate at which they accrue.

They're reducing the number of available leves. There can be 1,000 potential leves, but if I can only run one per month, then there's not much to do in the game.

You're incorrect about that, at least for me. There are MANY times in which I could do 16 leves in 36 hours. There are days in which I can do 16 leves in 10 hours. But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

So you can't complete 16 leves every 36 hours. In other words, what I said was correct.

Are you just disagreeing with everything I say to be disagreeable?

The new system allows for me to store the leves up for when I do have time. I WILL be able to do 16 leves in 10 hours once the new system drops - and what more, those can be ALL combat or ALL crafting or ALL gathering. The proposed system offers significantly more flexibility for all players. Let's not give SE crap just b/c a few people will have their addiction impacted - slightly.

There you go again. Anyone who plays more than you is "addicted" to the game? When did you become the standard for videogame addiction?

In order for this game to succeed, FFXIV is going to need to appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamers. While you may have disdain for people who play more than a few hours a week, SE needs to appeal to those players, too. And offering more content is only going to help the game by increasing the options available to everyone. Including you.

And it's not like it hurts you if other people play more than you. So I'm honestly surprised that anyone is arguing for their to be less fun stuff to do in the game.

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content.

Egad. That's the whole point. "Content" that you can't do is useless.

[Cycloptichorn]

Oh, well, that definitely changes things. You have expressed disdain for people who waste their time playing videogames by posting a wall of text on an internet forum about a videogame. No, wait. I guess my point still stands.

This is inaccurate. I disdain those who are addicted - people who, as someone stated earlier in this thread, 'never miss a leve.' Obviously, I've put a lot of time into this game as well; what you wrote doesn't reflect the point I was making.

I also would hardly call that a 'wall' of text. It took less than 5 minutes to write. You should see the stuff I really care about...

<Many boring things you wrote snipped out>

Well, that's a fancy little bit of wordplay. I like how you called it "changing the rate at which leves accrue" rather than "reducing the rate at which leves accrue." Super tricky, that. Do you work in politics?

You're actually factually incorrect. The truth is, the new system ALLOWS for the accrual of leves. The old system did not allow for the accrual of leves. You had a set number of leves to do within a set time, and if you don't use them - they disappear. You don't get credit for leves you didn't do. They DIDN'T accrue at all, but instead were available within a certain window. If you logged on at the wrong moments, you could be really screwed by this in terms of the number of leves you can do at any one time.

The new system is infinitely superior, in that you will be able to save leves up. Miss a few days? No problem for your char, when you do log back on, you will have as many leves available as you would have done during all those days! This is a feature, not a bug.

<more non-interesting comments snipped>

So you can't complete 16 leves every 36 hours. In other words, what I said was correct.

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in. But now, I'll be on the same playing field as those of you who have none of those! Success, SE!

Are you just disagreeing with everything I say to be disagreeable?

No, I disagree with things you say because they are factually wrong, and I don't like that.

In order for this game to succeed, FFXIV is going to need to appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamers. While you may have disdain for people who play more than a few hours a week, SE needs to appeal to those players, too. And offering more content is only going to help the game by increasing the options available to everyone. Including you.

The new leve system DOES increase the options available to everyone. You just don't seem to be able to see that. You'll catch on quick enough once it's in place though; the first time you bang out 20 crafting leves in a day you'll see what I mean.

Egad. That's the whole point. "Content" that you can't do is useless.

You're absolutely correct. 'Content' which expires on an arbitrary time limit is indeed useless. Content which persists, that I can do whenever I want - that's useful.

Besides, since when do people really like leves? Leves suck. It's a convenient way to get SP and a little cash and that's it. Not a substitute for proper and enduring quest lines. The game shouldn't be focused around them and anything that they do to move that focus even farther away is a plus in my book.

[VydarrTyr]

TYou're actually factually incorrect. The truth is, the new system ALLOWS for the accrual of leves. The old system did not allow for the accrual of leves. You had a set number of leves to do within a set time, and if you don't use them - they disappear. You don't get credit for leves you didn't do. They DIDN'T accrue at all, but instead were available within a certain window.

Ok. So you apparently don't know what the word "accrue" means. It means "Be received by someone in regular or increasing amounts over time." If leves don't accrue under the current system, you would get one set, and no new ones. That's obviously not what happens. They do accrue under the current system. What's changing is the rate at which they accrue, and whether you can keep them beyond the 36 hour period.

The new system is infinitely superior, in that you will be able to save leves up. Miss a few days? No problem for your char, when you do log back on, you will have as many leves available as you would have done during all those days! This is a feature, not a bug.

And that's why I'm in favor of the new ticketing system. I'm not arguing against it. I'm arguing against them reducing the rate at which leves accrue.

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in.

Interesting. I wonder who typed this:

But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

Oh, wait. That's you.

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in. But now, I'll be on the same playing field as those of you who have none of those!

/sigh. Here's a little tip: Keep the personal insults to a minimum. You lose credibility when you make them, especially when they're this ridiculous. You have no idea how many "awesome" real life activities I'm involved in. And for the record, I'd put the awesomeness of my life up against yours any day of the week.

You're absolutely correct. 'Content' which expires on an arbitrary time limit is indeed useless. Content which persists, that I can do whenever I want - that's useful.

That's not what I said, nor is it what I implied. Again, please don't misrepresent what I said.

No, I disagree with things you say because they are factually wrong, and I don't like that.

So far in this post, you've misrepresented what's involved in the current system, misrepresented what I'm arguing, and misrepresented what you said previously. If you disdain factual inaccuracies, then your self-loathing must be reaching volcanic proportions.

You still haven't given any reason why everyone else should be limited to your playing time. I'm honestly wondering what your answer is. It doesn't make any sense to me. How are you hurt by the fact that some people can play more than you?

[FullMetalBishop]

"
You still haven't given any reason why everyone else should be limited to your playing time. I'm honestly wondering what your answer is. It doesn't make any sense to me. How are you hurt by the fact that some people can play more than you?

THANK YOU. i may not agree with everything the post said but this is the key element to everything. SE tries to balance the game by making the people who have more time on their hands WAIT for the people who are too busy to catch up but in doing so your leaving people with boredom and boredom leads to finding something better then the boring thing to do, which means people will leave the game permanently if they find theres nothing better to do, which at the moment means nothing but people wont pay subscriptions for a monthly game if they can only play for an hour or 2 out of the day and then have nothing to do for the rest of that time, that would be an extreme waste of money, im paying 15(including character fee obviously-if just one) dollars a month to play a game for 2 hours a day and then have the OPTION to play longer but not be able to do anything but grind the rest of that time...hmm i could do that, or i could go to City of heroes/villains and do a bunch of missions or rob a bank or do a task force or the millions of other filler missions /quests they have for people to do. but thats not what i want to do thats just an example of a game that at least has some filler if you cant do something in specific. i LIKE ff14 its one of the most beautiful games ive played and i like how the system works in battling and crafting/gathering its nice but i want MORE of it not restrictions on them.

the word there is filler. city of heroes has that consept where its like okay we have stuff for you to do but if you cant QUITE DO IT yet, we have these repeatable quests you can do, "save someone/kidnap someone, defeat this bad guy, go steal this/ prevent this from being stolen" etc etc until you can do what you need to do! here you go. yes they are a little repetitious but at least it gives you something to do that doesnt JUST consist of killing things for no reason, it gives you reason and somethig to do until you can achieve that level to do what you wanted to do. why cant leve's be more like that where yea they are the "go kill this or that" over n over, but at least you get rewarded for doing it and you get the bonus's. and if they didnt have the restrictions on the leves just change the size of the bonus's to balance out. lvl 10 leves can give you 2-5k which is nice but if you can keep doing them over n over again only make them give 1-3k or something to balance out the fact theres no limit.

That goes for crafting too. if you cant increase your craft level its usually because you either dont have enough ingredients or the ingredients you need are not as easy to get as you'd hoped, what do you do to solve that? do a leve that gives you the items so you can at least increase a LITTLE bit. but then when your lets say level 10 in your craft and you check the lvl 10 craft leve options and theres only 2 for the im at, you do the two fo those in like 30 minutes and your done..then what? back to a grind AGAIN. it all leads to grinding enemies wether it be to kill them for W and M classes or to farm the items for crafting.

Even if the leve's have a restriction have more quests for us even if they arnt main storyline i walked around for a long time for the first time by camp drybone and had found that camp up northwest-ish that has that guy with the quest about being attacked in a cave by Dodo's and was like OMG THIS IS A QUEST WOW WHO'DA THUNK IT. if theres more NPC's that do that then YES thats what we want. a random person standing there being like "hey friend can you help me i can give you something for helping me, just go and do this: ---" even just standing around the city or the camps have a few new NPC's that are walking around with a few quests. so far the only two quests in ul'dah that i have seen that are like this are the one that starts in the pugilists guild about the warriors and you talk to like 5 or 6 people, and the one from the place north of drybone with the dodo's. thats it. i know theres one other one in ul'dah just cant remember where i got it. i understand im not far in the game..but to only find 2 or 3 in the first 11 levels of gameplay for me is kinda sad to see:/

[FullMetalBishop]

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content. And I would submit that our 'hardcore' players are going to love the change as well, once they get used to it.

anything that takes time to get used to isnt love, its acceptance, like the step mother you never wanted or the cat that scratches you when you go near it instead of sitting on your lap. or the dog that barks a thousand times a minute. whatever the reason, if it takes time to get used to it its not something you can love. everyones argument seems to be on wether people have time to play or not etc etc..well thats their business and the game itself shouldnt have hand in wether or not people have time or not..

the people who know they dont have a lot of time on their hands KNOW that they will take longer to level up or do whatever it is they were going to do. it should be players choice on if they want to sit at home and be no-lifer 24hr gameplayers or not, as sad as that sounds its true. all of these "implimentations" and "changes" they are trying to do are to balance how much people can do in how much amount of time and how effective they will be for that amount of time and all that when they should be more worried about "if this person has two hours to play the game, they should be able to do this this this and this and that" if someone has 5 hours to play the game they should also be able to do this this this and that and oh yea lets have this for them to do as well, the person with only two hours can still do that option but they might have to use those 2 hours to do it or do the other stuff, its their choice either way its there for them when they want it" not "well the guy with 2 hours has 2 hours to do that but the guy with 5 hours on his hands only has 2 hours worth of stuff to do then he/shes gotta sit with a thumb up their bum until they can do the stuff again" the whole argument is solely based on them trying to control how much people do when we should be able to make our own choice on wether or not to waste our time for hours on end of for a few hours a day. "thanks for the Warning SE i will keep it in mind but if i dont feel like doing anything today i would like to sit and enjoy your game for a long time, thank you."