[dev1134] Combine all instead of spliting?!

[VydarrTyr]

Am I the only one who thinks that people who NEVER miss a leve, and who spend ALL DAY playing FF14, really need to find something else to do every now and then?

No, I'm sure there are other people who spend their time fretting over how people they've never met are doing things differently. I'm sure it's terribly distressing. But if you're spending time and effort worrying about how much time other people spend playing videogames, then maybe you shouldn't be lecturing other people on the most effective ways to spend their time. On a videogame forum. On the internet.

For f's sake, it's a game, not reality. Take a few days off and then you'll have a hard time doing all the leves you want to do.

Yes, it's just a game. Obviously. But SE should want people to want to play their game 24/7. That should be SE's goal. To give players a reason to log in and spend all their free time running around Eorzea.

So if you're suggesting that SE shouldn't worry about implementing enough content to entertain players who want to play every day, then I sincerely hope SE doesn't follow your advice.

I would also state that there's plenty to do besides Leves in the game, just use your imagination a bit. I highly doubt that most who complain about there not being enough leves (where you go and beat stuff up) have properly considered the fun in just going out and beating stuff up on your own...

Nobody's suggesting that there's nothing else to do besides leves. What's being suggested is that:

a) With fewer leves, it's going to take longer to rank up to 50;

b) Reducing the number of leves is going to reduce the amount of available content.

Yes, we're still free to do other things, like grind or explore or whatever. But my chief complaint about the game since CE release has been a lack of content. Reducing the number of leves reduces the amount of content available.

1.19 will apparently include additional content, which will hopefully offset this loss somewhat. And I understand they're trying to bend the focus of the game away from leves. And I also understand that folks like you and Bigcatman are unlikely to be able to do 16 leves every 36 hours. But I'd respectfully submit that the amount of time you can spend on a game shouldn't be the outer limit for everyone. In fact, it might even be a good thing for everyone -- including you and Bigcatman -- if the game offered enough stuff to do that even hardcore gamers could log on an enjoy it.

[Reika]

I will also add that no one needs to play 24/7 to complete leves every 36 hours. I have no idea where that idea could possibly come from, but we are talking about leves here, not whatever a person may or may not do after leves are complete. It doesn't take that long to do levequests. I still spend a lot of my time sleeping, doing homework, and playing other video games and still do all my levequests. This change may let me spend even more time on other things and dedicate but one day to doing levequests, but that doesn't change the fact that i'll be doing 4 less every 36hrs than I do now. And also said, unless the additional content such as company guildleves (and if it doesn't just combine into the 4 leves every 12 like I'm expecting), or the leve history/evaluation bonus effects SP gains on new leves taken, it will slow down all sp gains from leves for a lot of people.

And really, even if it isn't to do leves, people are probably going to log in for one reason or another. Whether it is to do the new repeatable content they are adding, such as the beastman fortress or caravan escort, or just to chit chat. The only good thing is that you don't have to do leves right away. The bad thing is that 4 less are doable in the same timeframe as now.

[Cycloptichorn]

No, I'm sure there are other people who spend their time fretting over how people they've never met are doing things differently. I'm sure it's terribly distressing. But if you're spending time and effort worrying about how much time other people spend playing videogames, then maybe you shouldn't be lecturing other people on the most effective ways to spend their time. On a videogame forum. On the internet.

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have been a little sloppy there.

See, you thought that I was fretting when in fact I was expressing disdain. It takes me almost no time whatsoever, so I don't think there's any reason for you to be concerned as to whether or not it's an effective use of my time.

I don't want our game designed around the needs of those who are addicted to it. It's a profoundly dumb way to design a game, and it doesn't work for the majority of users. The current system of leves isn't effective for most users. The system they are suggesting would be FAR more effective for most users than the current one; the pushback from hyper-addicts to the game deserves pushback from the rest of us who cheer on the changes they are making.

Yes, it's just a game. Obviously. But SE should want people to want to play their game 24/7. That should be SE's goal. To give players a reason to log in and spend all their free time running around Eorzea.

I disagree, and so does SE. You should take a minute next time you log in to actually read the message that pops up when you begin the game; yaknow, the one that SPECIFICALLY WARNS YOU not to play 24/7. That says not to forget your friends, family and work.

So if you're suggesting that SE shouldn't worry about implementing enough content to entertain players who want to play every day, then I sincerely hope SE doesn't follow your advice.

Changing the rate at which Leves accrue has nothing to do with adding content. They aren't adding OR subtracting content by doing this; they are merely changing the way content accrues. And it falls right in line with their stated overall strategy of making Leves less important to the game overall.

a) With fewer leves, it's going to take longer to rank up to 50;

So what? There's nothing to do at 50 that you can't do at a lower rank already.

b) Reducing the number of leves is going to reduce the amount of available content.

They aren't reducing the number of leves, just changing the rate at which they accrue.

Yes, we're still free to do other things, like grind or explore or whatever. But my chief complaint about the game since CE release has been a lack of content. Reducing the number of leves reduces the amount of content available.

No, it doesn't.

1.19 will apparently include additional content, which will hopefully offset this loss somewhat. And I understand they're trying to bend the focus of the game away from leves. And I also understand that folks like you and Bigcatman are unlikely to be able to do 16 leves every 36 hours.

You're incorrect about that, at least for me. There are MANY times in which I could do 16 leves in 36 hours. There are days in which I can do 16 leves in 10 hours. But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

The new system allows for me to store the leves up for when I do have time. I WILL be able to do 16 leves in 10 hours once the new system drops - and what more, those can be ALL combat or ALL crafting or ALL gathering. The proposed system offers significantly more flexibility for all players. Let's not give SE crap just b/c a few people will have their addiction impacted - slightly.

But I'd respectfully submit that the amount of time you can spend on a game shouldn't be the outer limit for everyone. In fact, it might even be a good thing for everyone -- including you and Bigcatman -- if the game offered enough stuff to do that even hardcore gamers could log on an enjoy it.

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content. And I would submit that our 'hardcore' players are going to love the change as well, once they get used to it.

[Cycloptichorn]

And also said, unless the additional content such as company guildleves (and if it doesn't just combine into the 4 leves every 12 like I'm expecting), or the leve history/evaluation bonus effects SP gains on new leves taken, it will slow down all sp gains from leves for a lot of people.

I do believe SE intends for this to be slowed down. They have stated that leves aren't going to be the focus of the game any longer.... now you're seeing what that means.

I would also submit that, subject to testing, EXP bonuses from kill chains and from monster reinforcement add-ons could significantly raise the SP gained from soloing or PT grinding.

[Vesper]

If I read this correctly and we can log and store up to 99 leves (even leves of the same name) then this is a good change. I am sick of feeling like I "have" to log in and do leves or I am losing out. This allows me to just log in real quick and log them in my journal if I have something else to do that day and do them on my own time. This gives us room to do more things, less "sorry I cant right now, trying to catch up on leves" which is one of the most common things you hear in this game. Maybe a couple more (6) would have been nice, but overall I approve of this system.

[VydarrTyr]

Oh, I'm sorry. I must have been a little sloppy there.

See, you thought that I was fretting when in fact I was expressing disdain. It takes me almost no time whatsoever, so I don't think there's any reason for you to be concerned as to whether or not it's an effective use of my time.

Oh, well, that definitely changes things. You have expressed disdain for people who waste their time playing videogames by posting a wall of text on an internet forum about a videogame. No, wait. I guess my point still stands.

I don't want our game designed around the needs of those who are addicted to it. It's a profoundly dumb way to design a game, and it doesn't work for the majority of users. The current system of leves isn't effective for most users. The system they are suggesting would be FAR more effective for most users than the current one; the pushback from hyper-addicts to the game deserves pushback from the rest of us who cheer on the changes they are making.

So if I can manage to do 16 leves every 36 hours -- which takes maybe 3 hours -- then I'm a "hyper-addict"? Ok, doctor. I'll be sure and give your medical opinion its due consideration.

And while I appreciate that it's very, very easy -- and probably even comforting -- to just assume that everyone who makes different choices than you is afflicted with a personality disorder, that's a very self-centered view of the world.

Changing the rate at which Leves accrue has nothing to do with adding content. They aren't adding OR subtracting content by doing this; they are merely changing the way content accrues. And it falls right in line with their stated overall strategy of making Leves less important to the game overall.

Well, that's a fancy little bit of wordplay. I like how you called it "changing the rate at which leves accrue" rather than "reducing the rate at which leves accrue." Super tricky, that. Do you work in politics?

Reducing the rate at which leves accrue reduces the amount of stuff that people can do in the game. And that's the point. We want more stuff to do in the game.

SE acknowledges that there's just not much to do in the game right now. They're working on increasing the amount of stuff to do in the game (i.e., "content"). But given the current dearth of content, and the fact that SE is trying to increase the amount of content, it seems counter-productive to reduce the number of available activities.

So what? There's nothing to do at 50 that you can't do at a lower rank already.

As I said, there's a lack of content. Glad we agree on that.

They aren't reducing the number of leves, just changing the rate at which they accrue.

They're reducing the number of available leves. There can be 1,000 potential leves, but if I can only run one per month, then there's not much to do in the game.

You're incorrect about that, at least for me. There are MANY times in which I could do 16 leves in 36 hours. There are days in which I can do 16 leves in 10 hours. But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

So you can't complete 16 leves every 36 hours. In other words, what I said was correct.

Are you just disagreeing with everything I say to be disagreeable?

The new system allows for me to store the leves up for when I do have time. I WILL be able to do 16 leves in 10 hours once the new system drops - and what more, those can be ALL combat or ALL crafting or ALL gathering. The proposed system offers significantly more flexibility for all players. Let's not give SE crap just b/c a few people will have their addiction impacted - slightly.

There you go again. Anyone who plays more than you is "addicted" to the game? When did you become the standard for videogame addiction?

In order for this game to succeed, FFXIV is going to need to appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamers. While you may have disdain for people who play more than a few hours a week, SE needs to appeal to those players, too. And offering more content is only going to help the game by increasing the options available to everyone. Including you.

And it's not like it hurts you if other people play more than you. So I'm honestly surprised that anyone is arguing for their to be less fun stuff to do in the game.

Changing the rate at which leves accrue doesn't change the level of content available, in the slightest. It only adjusts the rate at which you can do that content.

Egad. That's the whole point. "Content" that you can't do is useless.

[BONKERS]

I only hope they can stack if I don't play for like a week.

[Cycloptichorn]

Oh, well, that definitely changes things. You have expressed disdain for people who waste their time playing videogames by posting a wall of text on an internet forum about a videogame. No, wait. I guess my point still stands.

This is inaccurate. I disdain those who are addicted - people who, as someone stated earlier in this thread, 'never miss a leve.' Obviously, I've put a lot of time into this game as well; what you wrote doesn't reflect the point I was making.

I also would hardly call that a 'wall' of text. It took less than 5 minutes to write. You should see the stuff I really care about...

<Many boring things you wrote snipped out>

Well, that's a fancy little bit of wordplay. I like how you called it "changing the rate at which leves accrue" rather than "reducing the rate at which leves accrue." Super tricky, that. Do you work in politics?

You're actually factually incorrect. The truth is, the new system ALLOWS for the accrual of leves. The old system did not allow for the accrual of leves. You had a set number of leves to do within a set time, and if you don't use them - they disappear. You don't get credit for leves you didn't do. They DIDN'T accrue at all, but instead were available within a certain window. If you logged on at the wrong moments, you could be really screwed by this in terms of the number of leves you can do at any one time.

The new system is infinitely superior, in that you will be able to save leves up. Miss a few days? No problem for your char, when you do log back on, you will have as many leves available as you would have done during all those days! This is a feature, not a bug.

<more non-interesting comments snipped>

So you can't complete 16 leves every 36 hours. In other words, what I said was correct.

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in. But now, I'll be on the same playing field as those of you who have none of those! Success, SE!

Are you just disagreeing with everything I say to be disagreeable?

No, I disagree with things you say because they are factually wrong, and I don't like that.

In order for this game to succeed, FFXIV is going to need to appeal to both the casual and hardcore gamers. While you may have disdain for people who play more than a few hours a week, SE needs to appeal to those players, too. And offering more content is only going to help the game by increasing the options available to everyone. Including you.

The new leve system DOES increase the options available to everyone. You just don't seem to be able to see that. You'll catch on quick enough once it's in place though; the first time you bang out 20 crafting leves in a day you'll see what I mean.

Egad. That's the whole point. "Content" that you can't do is useless.

You're absolutely correct. 'Content' which expires on an arbitrary time limit is indeed useless. Content which persists, that I can do whenever I want - that's useful.

Besides, since when do people really like leves? Leves suck. It's a convenient way to get SP and a little cash and that's it. Not a substitute for proper and enduring quest lines. The game shouldn't be focused around them and anything that they do to move that focus even farther away is a plus in my book.

[VydarrTyr]

TYou're actually factually incorrect. The truth is, the new system ALLOWS for the accrual of leves. The old system did not allow for the accrual of leves. You had a set number of leves to do within a set time, and if you don't use them - they disappear. You don't get credit for leves you didn't do. They DIDN'T accrue at all, but instead were available within a certain window.

Ok. So you apparently don't know what the word "accrue" means. It means "Be received by someone in regular or increasing amounts over time." If leves don't accrue under the current system, you would get one set, and no new ones. That's obviously not what happens. They do accrue under the current system. What's changing is the rate at which they accrue, and whether you can keep them beyond the 36 hour period.

The new system is infinitely superior, in that you will be able to save leves up. Miss a few days? No problem for your char, when you do log back on, you will have as many leves available as you would have done during all those days! This is a feature, not a bug.

And that's why I'm in favor of the new ticketing system. I'm not arguing against it. I'm arguing against them reducing the rate at which leves accrue.

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in.

Interesting. I wonder who typed this:

But there are also days that I can't play at all, because of other things going on in my life.

Oh, wait. That's you.

Not can't but don't, due to the wide variety of awesome activities in RL that I also participate in. But now, I'll be on the same playing field as those of you who have none of those!

/sigh. Here's a little tip: Keep the personal insults to a minimum. You lose credibility when you make them, especially when they're this ridiculous. You have no idea how many "awesome" real life activities I'm involved in. And for the record, I'd put the awesomeness of my life up against yours any day of the week.

You're absolutely correct. 'Content' which expires on an arbitrary time limit is indeed useless. Content which persists, that I can do whenever I want - that's useful.

That's not what I said, nor is it what I implied. Again, please don't misrepresent what I said.

No, I disagree with things you say because they are factually wrong, and I don't like that.

So far in this post, you've misrepresented what's involved in the current system, misrepresented what I'm arguing, and misrepresented what you said previously. If you disdain factual inaccuracies, then your self-loathing must be reaching volcanic proportions.

You still haven't given any reason why everyone else should be limited to your playing time. I'm honestly wondering what your answer is. It doesn't make any sense to me. How are you hurt by the fact that some people can play more than you?

[FullMetalBishop]

Just remember that this patch is also going to be making enemy grinding and dungeon runs a lot more rewarding, so you will have less leves to do but you will also have those avenues for getting XP if you have more time on your hands and can play more often. Being able to focus solely on 1 type of leve is a welcome trade off to being able to do more of them but split up, IMO.

Yea.. but "grinding" isn't what we want, regardless of the improved rewards. that means instead of doing content that we should have we are doing nothing but repetitious scenario's.

when i first read "turn in the leve, get evaluated, and be handed a new one" on the post i was hoping so much that it was something like a level grade and the evaluation immidiatly led you to a new better or worse leve based on that. like "heres a job you might like, do this:" and then go and do it, come back be evaluated again, rince lather repeat. (yes that would also be a grind by all technical purposes but its not just running around killing a thousand things over and over and over without a seperate purpose besides the original "level up" purpose.)

then i re read everything and as much as it sounded good i read the limit again.. you could only have 4 at once, silly me for thinking i can comprehend something before i had my morning coffee :P. when i went through it again i was sorely dissapointed because the time limits in general should be abolished because some people DO have a LOT of time on their hands, and a grind fest is not something they are looking for to fill that time, if people wanted a grindfest tell them to go to SilkRoad or something silly. yes you encourage people to not spend all day doing something but last time i checked leve's dont take 12 hours to do they take maybe..5-10 minutes per leve depending on the type of leve. 12 hours is a bit much if you look at the time it takes to do them. if i get off work and just want to have 6 hours to myself because all my friends are busy or out and about and cant chill with me or for whatever reason i dont have anything else better to do then yea imma play for 6 hours or something because i feel like it, and in those 6 hours 45 minutes will be leve's and then what? a quest or two will tke up maybe another 30 minutes but then its like oh, theres...nothing to do but kill things (at the level im at anyways, i understand the games not THAT empty of content im just saying i cant xactly go take on much at lvl 11 :P)

the post about all the extra content filling up time may be true but what if i want to take some time to level up my crafting out of the day and really have at it for awhile (lets say im close to a level where i can make a pair of pants or a shirt for someone who wants it) and i do the crafting leve's to help me level up a bit faster instead of doing a bunch of different stuff, now im even more S. o. L than before. back to the word "grind", its not easy to grind crafting classes as people might know, its easy once you can get a lot of stuff to craft but starting out its kind of a neusance and leve's help a LOT, but considering at the levequest level your able to craft at you dont get very many of them to do in the first place, your done within the first 30 minutes of the time doing them and then you have to rely on grinding the crafting and thats only IF you have enough "ingredients" to do so, if not you have to go grind for the items on top of grinding the same enemies FOR those items over and over again, at least with leve's you feel like your accomplishing something and get a small bonus to HELP you move things along.