Let us report retainers who sell items from bots

[Clarkamite]

My only contribution to this thread will be the following. I'm not sure what server all of these shard prices are at 10 or 20 like some have stated but over here on Cactuar a "low" shard price for us is usually around 60. We have bots running all over the place and our markets have never tanked that hard from what I've seen.

[tocsin]

shard prices are at 10 or 20 like some have stated

I would like to know this as well. Jenova is the Capitol of RMT, and have literally hundreds of bots on the server. Yet, our shard prices have been hovering between 150-200 gil per shard for most of the past 8 months.

[WellFooled]

Next time, get your crimes to actually relate to the situation, and then you might actually understand how to make an allusion.

You may be right, I could have picked a more suitable example, but one of your main points against this suggestion seems to be that innocent players could get reported. My point is this: Being reported doesn't hurt the innocent, so it doesn't matter if the occasional non-botter is reported (just like the police are occasionally called because someone witnessed some horse play that they thought was something else), but if it is a retainer connected to botting than the report could alert the GMs to illegal activity that they otherwise wouldn't have known about.

After all, there are many, many more players than there are GMs. Its much more likely a player will be the one to spot illegal activity.

You also make another argument,

Starting from the trunk (source) and following the trade of items to all the accounts that the items are likely being traded to is much easier than starting with one of those accounts, then tracing back to the source, then having to trace from the source back to all those accounts.

And I can see where you're coming from, but what evidence do you have that working from the retainer back is so much more difficult? Of even if it is, what makes you think that its so unproductive so as not to even be worth it?

[Sicno]

Being reported doesn't hurt the innocent, so it doesn't matter if the occasional non-botter is reported

But it hurts us all because on top of the reports pointing to actual bots the 3 people of the task force would also have to investigate a lot of erroneous reports too. Now, in the case of actual bots the investigation may be fast because the signs may be too obvious at first glance, but what about legit players wrongfuly being accused? there are 2 possible scenarios:

1) Since there are no clear signs of illicit activity a more extensive investigation is required until they can be 100% sure that the player is clean. This may take a long time, and that's time not spent into investigating actual bots. And let's not forget that the task force has a big total of 3 people.

2) The investigation is fast and not serious and based mostly on testimony from the reports, causing some innocent players to get banned in the process.

So it all boils down to something I already said before in this very thread: I know RMT and its advertising are super bothersome to all of us, but going on a witch hunt and reporting everybody at the first suspicious sign is not helping either and on the contrary, may be causing even more problems. Report a player only when you're 100% sure of your accusations.

[WellFooled]

but what about legit players wrongfuly being accused? there are 2 possible scenarios:

I don't mean to be curt, but those are not the only two possible scenarios. I would argue that neither of those situations are even very likely.

In your first scenario, why would a GM launch an extensive investigation if there are no cursory signs of illicit activity? If a player gets reported and after a brief look at their activities, nothing big stands out (no huge amount of gil or items trading hands, no crazy amounts of time logged doing a single thing, etc) I don't think they'd have any reason to delve any deeper.

And in your second scenario that policy would hurt their business and drive players away.

the task force would also have to investigate a lot of erroneous reports too

But I do understand this. If a GM has to investigate every single report, even if most of them only take a couple of minutes, it can add up quick. Though its impossible to be perfectly efficient with these sorts of jobs, other MMOs that I've played only have their GMs look into a player if a sufficient amount of complaints were filed, instead of having them investigate every single report. Which means whatever the player was doing had to be bad enough for multiple people to bother reporting them, which cuts out on a lot of the false alarms.

[tocsin]

GMs look into a player if a sufficient amount of complaints were filed, instead of having them investigate every single report.

We are talking about the marketplace. I undercut mastercraft demimateria once by 50k, and had 20 different people report me for cheating within a day. I had to show exactly how i craft, including pictures of my controller setup (I have a digital stopwatch attached to my controller to time my crafts), to prove my innocence.

In the FFXIV economy, collusion is rampant, and if one person doesn't like you, they can easily get gangs of people after you.

[JustaBard]

Terrible idea. Imagine how many reports of 'bots' whenever someone undercuts the user!

[WellFooled]

We are talking about the marketplace. I undercut mastercraft demimateria once by 50k, and had 20 different people report me for cheating within a day. I had to show exactly how i craft, including pictures of my controller setup (I have a digital stopwatch attached to my controller to time my crafts), to prove my innocence.

In the FFXIV economy, collusion is rampant, and if one person doesn't like you, they can easily get gangs of people after you.

I don't blame you for being skeptical of the idea after that sort of experience, it doesn't sound fun. I'm not arguing that its impossible for things to go wrong, but I'm still in agreement with the original poster's request and other similar quick-report features. I think if used right more help will come out of it than harm.

...and on a side note, curse you for undercutting! *shakes fist in the air* :P

[Maxsdad]

I just changed servers and had to dump several million gil, so I bought tons of shards... I mean TONS (I should have bought battlecraft materia, but... oh, well). Shards were the only things I would have room for. I also have been known to buy stacks when they were cheap and hold them until the increased in price. Are you going to report ME simply because you THINK I'm selling too many of them? Your concern is valid, but not everyone who is REALLY into the market aspect of the game is botting. I enjoy the buying, selling, and crafting more than dungeon diving. And I will also spend several hours mining the same 3 nodes over and over and over until my a$$ is raw from sitting. And I've had people stop and LQQK me over as if they thought I might be a bot. I don't mind, but I'd start getting pretty wanked if people started reporting me because I play a different approach to the game than they do. If you think they're a bot, why not ASK them? I don't bite... usually.

[WellFooled]

I just changed servers and had to dump several million gil, so I bought tons of shards... Are you going to report ME simply because you THINK I'm selling too many of them? Your concern is valid, but not everyone who is REALLY into the market aspect of the game is botting.

I may very well report you :P but as has been touched on in the thread, a report isn't a sentence. Since you're just a crazy crafter (there are several of you lot in my free company! They go through shards like they're breathing air) a GM will be able to tell you're legit and you'd likely go about your day never knowing anyone reported anything.