Level Sync QoL: Keep Abilities Intact

[kyuven]

So, the big reason why it should be is because... people would "sell" low level dungeon runs?!



I.. am going to assume you put no thought whatsoever and your embarassed for even saying such a thing, anyways! It is not as complicated as you might think because the coding for making your own group is already different, because in a group you made you can just leave without anything happening to you. It is already a unique system.

You really have no idea what you're talking about.
Rescaling every single ability in the game based on the level of the dungeon is something you do during the development stages of your game. I can't think of a single solitary game that added a system like this later that wasn't a freakishly old game like FFXI or a brand new game like GW2 (meaning at launch, I am not saying GW2 is a "brand new game"), which both use drastically different systems from FFXIV for their combat.
It's more than "simply unlocking the skills," as many of those skills use percentages, which would have to be either capped or readjusted. And you'd have to do this for every single skill in the game. And then you'd have to test it.
All for something that would absolutely be exploited by people selling runs. There were tanks whoring themselves out when NIN came out to decrease queue times for dungeons for DPS classes. Not to mention people selling coil runs, which is a major motivation for designing several of the FCOB fights and the loot system ("preventing carries") Do you honestly believe people wouldn't sell runs through dungeons?
IF this was something in the game from the beginning, that would be fine. But that's NOT the decisions they went with, and backtracking would take such an absurd amount of resources that could be spent elsewhere that if anyone should feel embarrassed, it's you for defending the idea so vehemently in the first place.
What you're doing is akin to looking at the Washington Monument and saying it should have two domes adjacent to it to recognize the great accomplishments of John Adams. He already has a monument elsewhere (sorta) and adding it onto the washington monument would make it look silly.

I will tell you what another person told me in another thread. "That is what "Trials" are for." and I don't mind trials being the same way they are now.

And you want it to work differently for Trials than everything else.
That's even more coding and testing.
And before you say "it's easy," it really isn't.

[Synestra]

Also this is a FINAL FANTASY since when have you seen the heroes themselves take down leagues of enemies and bosses solo?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DhRM22NB8w Full party is for pussies :P

[Nektulos-Tuor]

You really have no idea what you're talking about.
Rescaling every single ability in the game based on the level of the dungeon is something you do during the development stages of your game. I can't think of a single solitary game that added a system like this later that wasn't a freakishly old game like FFXI or a brand new game like GW2 (meaning at launch, I am not saying GW2 is a "brand new game"), which both use drastically different systems from FFXIV for their combat.
It's more than "simply unlocking the skills," as many of those skills use percentages, which would have to be either capped or readjusted. And you'd have to do this for every single skill in the game. And then you'd have to test it.
All for something that would absolutely be exploited by people selling runs. There were tanks whoring themselves out when NIN came out to decrease queue times for dungeons for DPS classes. Not to mention people selling coil runs, which is a major motivation for designing several of the FCOB fights and the loot system ("preventing carries") Do you honestly believe people wouldn't sell runs through dungeons?
IF this was something in the game from the beginning, that would be fine. But that's NOT the decisions they went with, and backtracking would take such an absurd amount of resources that could be spent elsewhere that if anyone should feel embarrassed, it's you for defending the idea so vehemently in the first place.
What you're doing is akin to looking at the Washington Monument and saying it should have two domes adjacent to it to recognize the great accomplishments of John Adams. He already has a monument elsewhere (sorta) and adding it onto the washington monument would make it look silly.



And you want it to work differently for Trials than everything else.
That's even more coding and testing.
And before you say "it's easy," it really isn't.

Everquest 2 had a system like that. It is pretty much the same game system as FFXIV. Its a Hotbar based MMO. FFXIV just improved upon what Everquest did. World of Warcraft took what Everquest did and made it more casual.

The Mentoring system was actually pretty brilliant until they added blue stats. So what, 5 years after it was developed?

[Eidolon]

Okay, we get it, all you people who're all for this idea you just want to be able to 'faceroll' all the content, even though you still can't 'faceroll' Coil, much less Crystal Tower (them mechanics, yo). But, see, you're ignoring something. Not everyone is level 50 sporting Coil-ready gear. Low Level Roulette wasn't implemented to give you a boost on tomes. The tomes are an incentive to go and help, and try not to let this blow your mind, low level player queues. Yes, you are helping THEM, not the other way around. As such, they are the ones being catered to with the level sync, not you. You can't have your cake and eat it, too. "You aren't the only hero." You having access to all your abilities only serves to help you and screw everyone else. Especially the low level players.

Okay, we get i, all you people who are against this idea just want to feel like a special snowflake. You want to be able to say you went through it "HOW IT WUS MEANT TO BE" and you're under some false delusion that Dungouns teach you meaningful skills, just like Fate Grinding, even though the bulk of your skills come at level 50 and the dynamic of most classes changes post-40 compared to 15-40. But, see, you're ignoring something. Not everyone wants to play with a mind numbing repititious set of 1-3 skills. As such, there are people who want to be able to do more than press 1-1-1-1 CTRL+1 2-2-2-2 CTRL+1 1-1-1-1 (BLM.)


As such, they are giving constructive suggestions and idea to SE about ways to make it so that people who are at the cap, can come help players without it feeling like a complete chore. The tomes as an incentive to help aren't often enough for most people if the gameplay isn't enough to substantiate it, and this might blow your mind, but being able to help people without being bored is good game design. As such, catering to one group of people is just naive, and trying to give reasons for higher level players to play the lower content - such as enjoyment - is a good idea.

You can't have your cake and eat it too as a low level. If you need help, people want to be there to help you. "You aren't the only hero" who just gets 3 other slaves from the roulette for your low level dungouns. People having access to all their abilities only serves to support


(Man, it's fun to completely blast the other party as if I'm completely in the right without conceding points. Is this what people think constructive discussions are like? I should do it more often. Following this persons' format works great!)

[kyuven]

Everquest 2 had a system like that. It is pretty much the same game system as FFXIV. Its a Hotbar based MMO. FFXIV just improved upon what Everquest did. World of Warcraft took what Everquest did and made it more casual.

The Mentoring system was actually pretty brilliant until they added blue stats. So what, 5 years after it was developed?

EQ2 added the system several years after development, it was not around for their first 2 expansions, which means it took them several years (and noticing other games doing it) to get it right. They chose their version as their level scaling version because level discrepancies were becoming a problem. It's also one of the only games I know of where you can choose to mentor YOURSELF to do old content for that reason.
And using WoW is not a proper comparison for basically anything since they've revamped nearly every aspect of their game at least once. Sometimes three or more times. They've revamped their talent system FIVE TIMES.

And at no time did any of these games already have a system in place. FFXIV has a system in place. Developing a new system would be a waste of time and resources.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

EQ2 added the system several years after development, it was not around for their first 2 expansions, which means it took them several years (and noticing other games doing it) to get it right. They chose their version as their level scaling version because level discrepancies were becoming a problem. It's also one of the only games I know of where you can choose to mentor YOURSELF to do old content for that reason.
And using WoW is not a proper comparison for basically anything since they've revamped nearly every aspect of their game at least once. Sometimes three or more times. They've revamped their talent system FIVE TIMES.

And at no time did any of these games already have a system in place. FFXIV has a system in place. Developing a new system would be a waste of time and resources.

So, 15% of the games life? Its kind of an old game. I admit I started in KoS.

So, a system in place which helps new players. A system in the game which makes dungeons you have done funner. A system in place which helps alts and furthers the time of the game. IS a waste of time?

Yeah, no.

[kyuven]

So, 15% of the games life? Its kind of an old game. I admit I started in KoS.

So, a system in place which helps new players. A system in the game which makes dungeons you have done funner. A system in place which helps alts and furthers the time of the game. IS a waste of time?

Yeah, no.

It's difficult to give a percent to a game's life when it's still around. EQ1 and EQ2 both added mentoring systems around the same time, but are different ages. It's more about changes in the market than the age of the game. Neither came pre-packaged with the system, just like WoW (though WoW took a different tack entirely). The only game that DID during that year (2004) was City of Heroes, which touted it as a major selling point for the game. They were also one of the first games to truly embrace instancing and "dynamic content" (which was just scripts that increased the number and difficulty of enemies based on your party's numerical composition).Even THEN they didn't have "revisit" options until around the same time EQ2 and EQ1 added them (there was a joke in certain circles that time travel was the new thing, since even WoW had time travel instances during this time)

Yes, it's a waste of development resources because it already exists and would cause more problems in addition to those "good things" you list.
"Helps new players" by blasting them through content without teaching them anything.
"Makes dungeons funner" by trivializing them further.
"Helps alts" by...wait why would it help alts?
"Furthers the time of the game" by, AGAIN, further trivializing already easy content.

And to do all this, effort would have to be expended. There's no net gain by doing something, and no net loss by doing nothing. So they will do nothing, at this juncture. YEARS later they may revisit it, but there's no dire need to since the current system isn't broken, just not to everyone's tastes.

[Cakekizy]

Since when does EQ1 have a mentoring system?

[LunaHoshino]

The problem is that, as things stand, very few higher-level players are willing to go back and do low-level dungeons if they don't have to (either leveling a new class or because they need a drop). I don't know anyone who does LLR unless they need it... why? Because it's extremely boring.

The more players who hit 50 and stop doing low-level content, the fewer players there will be to help newbies out and the longer their queue times will be. You have a problem when most veteran players don't want to touch low-level content.

[Nektulos-Tuor]

EQ1 and EQ2 both added mentoring systems around the same time, but are different ages.

Since when does EQ1 have a mentoring system?

I was going to ask that myself.

"Helps alts" by...wait why would it help alts?

I don't know, I can ask friends to help level my new character? I guess I think too much over some people.

The problem is that, as things stand, very few higher-level players are willing to go back and do low-level dungeons if they don't have to (either leveling a new class or because they need a drop). I don't know anyone who does LLR unless they need it... why? Because it's extremely boring.

The more players who hit 50 and stop doing low-level content, the fewer players there will be to help newbies out and the longer their queue times will be. You have a problem when most veteran players don't want to touch low-level content.

Yep. People will make up any excuse to keep new players down.