Level Sync QoL: Keep Abilities Intact

[Kemiko]

So you're basically admitting that you screwed up and then tried twisting it into another player's fault? Your own wife no less? And then somehow made it the system's obligation to help the lower ilevel player when it isnt them that screwed up? Btw 1st jump IS early and pretty much the first arena wide aoe. Even if ignoring it is the norm now, there's no urgency for medica 2. Hell, going by what you described, your wife should be hurting bad and hurting the most since she didn't hide and she's at that ilvl AND she's the main tank.

This is beautiful - gorgeous, prismatic, beautiful. I'm having a grand time watching you jump all around. I screwed up by, oh no, healing people. After 6/8 people took roughly 2100 damage? As a healer no less. But no, I'm in the wrong. And now, I'm supposedly suggesting that it's the systems ilv fault, no wait, obligation to help the lower ilv person? I'm terribly sorry but, where exactly did I demand these things?

I recall quite clear when the ilv sync was first introduced and many, many people were quite adamant about how terrible it was and screw the newbs/n00bs. If anything, your overzealous insistence on my horrible ability is only proving that the ilv gaps need be made tighter. If a WHM can just use Medica II after the fight had been going on for at least 20 seconds, especially against a singular enemy, and snag the hate for the next 18-21 seconds then the gap is just too big.

Also, regardless of what you think about my skill with anything that I do, the gap is there. It causes problems and turns people off. Don't let it bleed into low-levels dungeons or level sync. Also, in case people haven't realized, the changes to level sync will also affect overworld content: Fates. Good luck getting any credit when people rush in with all their abilities at their fingertips in their end-game gear chasing after atmas, alexandrite and light. Sooner or later people will just start pointing at Fates and going, "Nah, that's for those LV50 guys. But sometimes you get lucky and no one's doing them and you can nab some XP."

[Teuciont]

When the hell are you people and Yoshi going to stop using the "Yeah but the NEW people..." argument for every design related decision in this game? Why is it always automatically assumed that new players are as braindead as the current playerbase? Have any of you ever stopped to think that maybe we wouldn't have as many player skill issues at level 50 if we didn't baby and hand-hold the new people all the live long day? Stop implying that the game needs to be designed around this hypothetical braindead new player you all seem to want to hide behind and begin to realize that the game needs to be designed around keeping current subscribers by introducing changes that make the game more fun at level 50.

[Gilraen]

Why is it always automatically assumed that new players are as braindead as the current playerbase?

I don't remember reading anything like that, implied or otherwise, in any of the posts in this thread. I do recall someone crunching the numbers and showing that high level players are mechanically superior to low level players, though. And I've cited current conditions where that mechanical superiority outshines low level players WITHOUT the level sync'd abilities. It's not that they don't have the skill, I've seen some new players learn from their mistakes within moments of making them. It's that they have nothing in their low level arsenals to counteract an overly aggressive high level player. But you can keep making that assumption of yours all you want, join the overly aggressive masses and make life harder for those that come after.

[Teuciont]

I don't remember reading anything, implied or otherwise, in any of the posts in this thread. I do recall someone crunching the numbers and showing that players are mechanically superior to new players, though. And I've cited current conditions where that mechanical superiority outshines new players WITHOUT the level sync'd abilities. It's not that they don't have the skill, I've seen some new players learn from their mistakes within moments of making them. It's that they have nothing in their low level arsenals to counteract an overly aggressive high level player. But you can keep making that assumption of yours all you want, join the overly aggressive masses and make life harder for those that come after.

I will continue to pursue a game that doesn't believe in holding the hand of players from 1-50 just as much as you are able to lobby for keeping the 1-50 experience dull and uninteresting for every party involved.

[Felis]

When the hell are you people and Yoshi going to stop using the "Yeah but the NEW people..." argument for every design related decision in this game? Why is it always automatically assumed that new players are as braindead as the current playerbase? Have any of you ever stopped to think that maybe we wouldn't have as many player skill issues at level 50 if we didn't baby and hand-hold the new people all the live long day? Stop implying that the game needs to be designed around this hypothetical braindead new player you all seem to want to hide behind and begin to realize that the game needs to be designed around keeping current subscribers by introducing changes that make the game more fun at level 50.

It is not so much for new players, more for old players who want to bring speed runs into low level dungeons.

[Kemiko]

Sir, level sync is about low-level dungeons. Which is designed for leveling players, typically the newer player-base. So, yes this is the perfect time to go, "...but the NEW players...!" It was designed with them in mind. And plenty of content has been implemented for the current subscribers. I mean, I don't see any new LV15-49 dungeons or trials. Do you? Everything implemented has been LV50. Dungeons, Raids, Trials and even MSQ. Even PVP (which since Wolves Den initial release has only been LV50). Frankly, none of that has been targeting the fresh new subscribers, it's been catering to those already there and at the heart of the game (as I like to call it. See my wall of text about pre-50 being tutorial land).
I don't think anyone here has suggested that new players are brain dead. Just that the power gap is, and will become more, obvious.

[Teuciont]

Sir, level sync is about low-level dungeons. Which is designed for leveling players, typically the newer player-base. So, yes this is the perfect time to go, "...but the NEW players...!" It was designed with them in mind. And plenty of content has been implemented for the current subscribers. I mean, I don't see any new LV15-49 dungeons or trials. Do you? Everything implemented has been LV50. Dungeons, Raids, Trials and even MSQ. Even PVP (which since Wolves Den initial release has only been LV50). Frankly, none of that has been targeting the fresh new subscribers, it's been catering to those already there and at the heart of the game (as I like to call it. See my wall of text about pre-50 being tutorial land).
I don't think anyone here has suggested that new players are brain dead. Just that the power gap is, and will become more, obvious.

And the assumption everyone's making here is that every new player is a complete moron who has no idea how to press buttons. Keeping hate in low level dungeons is a joke, you can spam flash or overpower, take your pick. If a new player can't manage to keep hate then they will eventually LEARN how to gain hate by experimenting until they find out how. This is how a MMO should be designed. There isn't any struggle from 1-50 for people to learn how to play their job the right way, and something like this would be a fantastic step in the right direction.

[Kathryn]

*snip*

WRONG!! They CANNOT spam Overpower or Flash and not a single person has mentioned anything about new players being braindead at all YOU are the only one jumping in with that sort of accusation.

And the reason they cannot spam Flash or Overpower is because they only have a limited resource to use them Skill's at a low level you having access to your abilities would not help them at all.

The level 50's asking for "their" skills to be available to "them" at a low level so "they" can get the instance done and dusted out of the way for "their" tomes is just being purely selfish imo.

[Teuciont]

WRONG!! They CANNOT spam Overpower or Flash and not a single person has mentioned anything about new players being braindead at all YOU are the only one jumping in with that sort of accusation.

And the reason they cannot spam Flash or Overpower is because they only have a limited resource to use them Skill's at a low level you having access to your abilities would not help them at all.

The level 50's asking for "their" skills to be available to "them" at a low level so "they" can get the instance done and dusted out of the way for "their" tomes is just being purely selfish imo.

If, with a full TP/MP bar, a WAR/PLD cannot hold hate by spamming Overpower/Flash and using comboes afterwards, then I would completely concede my point. I would also find it hard to believe that if monsters were marked properly that a tank could not hold hate with their basic 1/2, 1/2/3 combo after initial AoE. Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe there's a case to, if I am wrong, to give PLD and WAR the final parts of their hate comboes at 15 instead. This would not only make playing those jobs more entertaining at a lower level, because let's face it, the dullness of jobs at low levels is surely an unarguable fact, but also fix the aforementioned problem, if it even exists.

[Kathryn]

If, with a full TP/MP bar, a WAR/PLD cannot hold hate by spamming Overpower/Flash and using comboes afterwards, then I would completely concede my point. I would also find it hard to believe that if monsters were marked properly that a tank could not hold hate with their basic 1/2, 1/2/3 combo after initial AoE. Maybe I'm wrong, but maybe there's a case to, if I am wrong, to give PLD and WAR the final parts of their hate comboes at 15 instead. This would not only make playing those jobs more entertaining at a lower level, because let's face it, the dullness of jobs at low levels is surely an unarguable fact, but also fix the aforementioned problem, if it even exists.

But since when have you noticed lvl 50 DPS have patience and even let a low level tank pull let alone regenerate his resources, TP is actually very horrible to regenerate at a low level as a warrior, but even as a paladin being able to the enemies first and then flashing takes considerable time that most people are unwilling to wait on ending up in a clusterf*** pull pretty much.

Uh yes you can. What are you smoking? In fact I did it for my pld books a couple days ago. Hell it seems much easier now than when at launch. I didn't have to do any combo tabbing. Just combo spam on one target and flash every other (didnt have marks on my bar, didnt need them anymore at lvl 50). Hell, I got two melee dps splitting targets and all I did was spam flash and just get enough for the next pulls and a lot of them were <<z>> players. Back then I had to work much harder and actually keep checking my enmity position on every enemy, combo tabbing but oh wait, there's the shield oath buff, the flash buff and i think there's one more general enmity buff from the previous patches? There's really no reason to have any trouble keeping enmity in lvl 49 dungeons and below, unless your party is actively working against you somehow.

Are you kidding me, 1 you do NOT get Shield Oath til your 40's we are talking much lower levels aswell and Flash can easily be out agroe'd by over zealous DPS I have Tanked as a PLD since 1.0 and only started levelling WAR in 2.0 I KNOW how to Tank and I KNOW my skills.