Level Sync QoL: Keep Abilities Intact

[Lemuria]

"OMG, this newbie tank can't hold aggro! Kick him and let's hope we get a 50 instead!"

Probably not the best example, since level 50 tanks are hard to come by and you'd only end up waiting four ice ages to find a new one.

[KaedrianLiang]

/op

The idea of level sync is very 1.0, i hereby suggest what OP is suggesting and instead of raw level sync, convert dungeons over to an ilevel sync system, that ilevel syncs a player's gear to the appropriate level while allowing players to retain all abilities they have learned up to level cap.

Lets face it, the only reason a level 50 would be in a lower level dungeon is because the Dev's have implemented a quest or system that either requires or grants incentive to veteran players to go back and possibly push begining players through those ole dungeons.

Give players a favorable edge in dungeons, not something that's restrictive, like it is now.

Level sync is designed under the expectations that all 4 players have ideal gear, ideal level and ideal skill set for that level. There is no room for error. These are mere, leveling up dungeons.

[Felis]

Just make sure that overleveled skills get a great nerf, so a lv50 rotation in lv 17 dungeon is still possible, but much weaker than a lv17 rotation.

For every level over the level-synch level:
5 less potency
1 sec less durations
Instant casts get 1 sec cast time (if the difference is 30 level then that would mean 30 sec cast time)

[kyuven]

Let me counter with this question: If you're running a random dungeon, why bother going if one of the players doesn't have X skill?
The encounters in low level dungeons are designed around having or not having certain skills. The reason it's possible to run so many low level dungeons without a tank is because it's designed under the assumption tanks don't have a number of their abilities yet.
If you made it so people kept their abilities when they level sync'd, you'd promote situations where people refuse to run dungeons with players that aren't 50 already. People already ditch groups because of a soldiery bonus, can you imagine how bad it would be if people felt it was worth eating the leave-duty penalty rather than running Toto-rak with a tank that doesn't have Shield Oath/Defiance or a BLM without Fire 3+Blizzard 3?
For example, the difference between a fully leveled Ninja and a lvl 20 Rogue is huge. Not only does the Ninja have more base skills, they have all of their ninjutsu, allowing them to, even with decreased potency, outdo a lvl 20 without those abilities in every way.
In other words, it's simply not fair to those who are leveling normally if they're overshadowed in every single way by higher level players.
The content is already easy to help train newer players how to use the abilities they have, allowing players to use their full rotations at any level would break the game in half, and require severe rebalancing of every single pre-50 dungeon, trial, and guildhest in the game. Can you imagine how trivial the guildhest teaching players how do deal with multi-pulls would be if the BLMs had access to Flare?

Level sync as it stands is there to let players be on an equal playing field when they run dungeons, at least as much as is possible. Level sync'd players already have an edge over regular players, why increase that?

[Miitan]

I'm a level 50 BLM.

I start off the fight in Sastasha NM with a new tank by casting Thunder II then straight into Fire III for full stacks and spam Fire until out of mp, then Bliz III and repeat. The new tank would have no chance and they'd learn nothing about tanking (because I'd be doing it). You'd need to start nerfing Fire as well because it's already pretty powerful at that low a level and a level 50 rotation of it would be rather OP.

SE have implemented the simplest fix, which is to lock the skills, rather than the alternative of having to make a metric ton of adjustments which would serve no purpose.

[Kathryn]

I'm a level 50 BLM.

I start off the fight in Sastasha NM with a new tank by casting Thunder II then straight into Fire III for full stacks and spam Fire until out of mp, then Bliz III and repeat. The new tank would have no chance and they'd learn nothing about tanking (because I'd be doing it). You'd need to start nerfing Fire as well because it's already pretty powerful at that low a level and a level 50 rotation of it would be rather OP.

SE have implemented the simplest fix, which is to lock the skills, rather than the alternative of having to make a metric ton of adjustments which would serve no purpose.

I completely agree with this, there is no need nor is it fair on new players for older players to even have toned down high level abilities, it would just not work and new players would be at a huge disadvantage due to lack of skills previously mentioned byothers.

Problem is if you'r in a group with say 3 lvl 50's 2 DPS & a Healer for example and you are a level 20 Gladiator with only flash to your name and they have all their abilities,Yes you may survive the dungeon due to the DPS's downscaled armour values and the Healers Heals but that poor lvl 20 GLD is going to feel absolutely useless and unwanted due to the fact that the level 50's will just rush off ahead instead of letting him do his job, Tbh at the end of the day low level instances are there to help low level tanks and other classes learn their roles and how to do them properly it's not for high level classes to show off their tremendous powers and what nots You have your primals and Raids for that.

So I think level Sync is fine as it is.

[Kemiko]

This went all over the place rather quickly. o.o

Now, I'm just as annoyed by being level sync'd and losing all my superior abilities that makes me the big professional I am. Heck, even ilv sync annoys me, when my damage is suddenly cut and I lose about 2k hit points and wondering why ToB is suddenly giving me less than 1k of HP. This annoys me. Massively.

As far as level sync goes (not ilv sync) I think nothing needs to be done. It works the way it is now and does what it's intended to do. Low-level dungeons are, in fact, lowbies. I've often made the joke about every single dungeon pre-Wanderer's Palace/Ampador Keep (with the exception of Castrum and Praetorium) are tutorial dungeons. That, the whole game prior to that first roll of credits is, in fact, just the tutorial. Let's face it, the game does a fantastic job slowly introducing you to new mechanics, retaining anything they've thrown at you previously and just add a touch of something new. Every time. It's beautiful. The game didn't hold your hand through the progression but also didn't throw you to the wolves. And level sync is intended to maintain that guidance. Low-level dungeons are not there to assist LV50+ players. And those of you asking for these handouts should be ashamed. Is it boring? Maybe. And if you're returning there for your relic quest-line the Devs already told you it's intended to be a grind. If you don't like it, it's not for you. Go do something else. But if you really want that swag i135 Zeta, grit your teeth and bear the grind. That's what it was made for. The lolgil/tomes, as some put it, was put there as an incentive to assist new-players coming to Eorzea so that you'd get something out of going back to that dungeon, as save for maybe some iffy gear to glamour, you'd have no reason to return. You've already done the dungeon. It is them who needs the clear and the guidance to play their role effectively. Please, stop being selfish. We have enough of that in high-level play. Let the game run as intended.

Now, as far as ilv sync goes, the thing is laughable and it needs a tighter reign. My first realization of this was during my light farm, where Ifrit got a bonus and everyone and their grandma was running Ifrit. But, even when the bonus wore off I decided I wanted to keep running it in hopes for the Ifrit's Battleaxe (that I magically never got ever. Never even saw the drop once). All the light farmers have moved on to other things and I'm now being paired up with people doing their relic quest for the hotter-than-the-seventh-hell-Ifrit-heart or those doing Trial Roulette. Things went south quickly. Stun resists were there before Ifrit's first Eruption. Healers dying left and right, Summoners forgetting that they too can raise. Though, as long as we made it past Nail phase, I could, and have, solo'd Ifrit HM. And while that would normally be awesome, it wasn't. Because just then, how many people were just carried and thus, didn't learn squat.

My wife recently joined the game. In about 8 days, she's made it to LV50 and to help ease her into the high level play I crafted her some HQ i70 armor, weapon and got someone else to make her HQ i70 accessories. I could've farmed or bought the mats for i90 gear, but I figured she'd replace the gear quick enough that I wouldn't have to. After all, i70 gets you into ST which drops i100 gear and everything you need to get the i100 weapon. Easy stuff, right?

Now, I main WAR and she enjoys being the center of attention and as a result, tanks. She finds WAR more fun than PLD, so she plays WAR. I have every job at least i106 so I can fill in any gap she needs when doing something for the first time. We get into Garuda HM so she can do her relic quest. We have a full pre-form party of 8 and get in. I'm healing. WHM, i106 (which is 4 ilvs lower than any ilv sync'd content). Just one Medica II and all hell breaks loose. She's struggling to establish hate and I'm standing right next to her, watching as she does everything right. She's in all STR accessories, pops Infuriate, Unchained & berserk. Garuda has dancing edge debuff and she's spamming butcher's block combo. It takes her 3 full rotations before Garuda is off me. And I just stood there. Ready to just die and get raised so I'd lose all that enmity and I think, what the crap? I did ONE skill. And someone who's i71 and spec'd to deal damage struggled. If this bled down into low-level dungeons the people that those dungeons were made for would be the ones to suffer. And I pity the people meeting anyone who actually doesn't want to help them getting into the LV50 dungeons that just barely meet the entry requirements because, i110 is not low enough.

The only way I could think that would honestly work for ability retention in low-level dungeons is, if you're a pre-made light party of LV50 players. I could get behind that. But only that really.

[Gardes]

Now, I main WAR and she enjoys being the center of attention and as a result, tanks. She finds WAR more fun than PLD, so she plays WAR. I have every job at least i106 so I can fill in any gap she needs when doing something for the first time. We get into Garuda HM so she can do her relic quest. We have a full pre-form party of 8 and get in. I'm healing. WHM, i106 (which is 4 ilvs lower than any ilv sync'd content). Just one Medica II and all hell breaks loose. She's struggling to establish hate and I'm standing right next to her, watching as she does everything right. She's in all STR accessories, pops Infuriate, Unchained & berserk. Garuda has dancing edge debuff and she's spamming butcher's block combo. It takes her 3 full rotations before Garuda is off me. And I just stood there. Ready to just die and get raised so I'd lose all that enmity and I think, what the crap? I did ONE skill. And someone who's i71 and spec'd to deal damage struggled. If this bled down into low-level dungeons the people that those dungeons were made for would be the ones to suffer. And I pity the people meeting anyone who actually doesn't want to help them getting into the LV50 dungeons that just barely meet the entry requirements because, i110 is not low enough.

So let me get this straight. She's i71 working on the relic, which means she's likely to have less than i80 for a weapon and you're i106 and likely have i90+ staff, probably even i110. She's trying establish aggro, as you said, and from the rest of the skill usage and buffs description the battle has just started and...you popped medica 2. Probably the WORST skill in whm's arsenal when it comes to playing ball with tank's aggro management (yes, it's not just the tank's job). And THEN you just stood there for 7+ seconds instead of cutting your enmity in half with SoS.

You basically sabotaged your own wife's attempt, you know? She may be trying her hardest and trying to do everything right but I'm not even sure you're even qualified to judge her war performance.

[Kemiko]

So let me get this straight. She's i71 working on the relic, which means she's likely to have less than i80 for a weapon and you're i106 and likely have i90+ staff, probably even i110. She's trying establish aggro, as you said, and from the rest of the skill usage and buffs description the battle has just started and...you popped medica 2. Probably the WORST skill in whm's arsenal when it comes to playing ball with tank's aggro management (yes, it's not just the tank's job). And THEN you just stood there for 7+ seconds instead of cutting your enmity in half with SoS.

You basically sabotaged your own wife's attempt, you know? She may be trying her hardest and trying to do everything right but I'm not even sure you're even qualified to judge her war performance.

You sure made a ton of assumptions there. The fight had actually gone on long enough that Garuda had already did her first jump. The other healer and myself were the only ones who actually hid behind one of the rocks to avoid damage - a habit I assume from all the Garuda HM farms they did. That was when I healed for the first time. It happened literally last night. The experience is still fresh and shocking. I could've popped Shroud and it's my fault I didn't but that doesn't change how I stole hate like that.

But, I do appreciate that you took the time to read that, play out the fight as you assumed it happened and then insult my ability in my main role.

[Gardes]

You sure made a ton of assumptions there. The fight had actually gone on long enough that Garuda had already did her first jump. The other healer and myself were the only ones who actually hid behind one of the rocks to avoid damage - a habit I assume from all the Garuda HM farms they did. That was when I healed for the first time. It happened literally last night. The experience is still fresh and shocking. I could've popped Shroud and it's my fault I didn't but that doesn't change how I stole hate like that.

But, I do appreciate that you took the time to read that, play out the fight as you assumed it happened and then insult my ability in my main role.

So you're basically admitting that you screwed up and then tried twisting it into another player's fault? Your own wife no less? And then somehow made it the system's obligation to help the lower ilevel player when it isnt them that screwed up? Btw 1st jump IS early and pretty much the first arena wide aoe. Even if ignoring it is the norm now, there's no urgency for medica 2. Hell, going by what you described, your wife should be hurting bad and hurting the most since she didn't hide and she's at that ilvl AND she's the main tank.