Irony?

[JayCommon]

You shouldn't be finding any main class tanks who don't know how to tank or healers who dps in the new dungeons. These would be legitimate problems otherwise that was extremely apparent in dungeons like Brayflox's Longstop and The Stone Vigil(which is when it became extremely crucial that tanks hold threat).

"Shouldn't" and "don't" are two very separate terms.

.....are you telling me that you haven't encountered a terrible tank in Stone Vigil who obviously knew nothing about their job? Warrior's without Defiance turned on, Paladin's get Shield Oath at level 40 but going into SV with Sword Oath still on. Telling them to switch to Shield Oath only to find that they haven't done their level 40 Job quest yet?? And then, these tanks who refuse to pop into their stance also don't rotate cooldowns on big pulls or bosses. I've had a Warrior tell me he won't turn Defiance on because it lowers his DPS....in a 4man low level dungeon.

And heals who DPS is a legitimate problem? If a healer (especially a scholar) can keep the party alive and throw out some dots or any DPS at all it is an absolute delight to have in the party because it makes killing that much quicker. I won't be the one to chastise a healer who doesn't DPS, but in a lot of low level content if the tank is doing his job correctly there is a LOT of downtime as a healer. I had absolutely no problem DPSing twice as much as healing when leveling my WHM to 50 in every low level dungeon outside of the final 3, because the damage is real from Stone Vigil onwards.

I have seen my fair share of tanks/healers who don't effectively play their role correctly in all levels of content, and I hardly ever use the DF. "Having to do" story missions means nothing when you can do them on any class, and most people in the game are more comfortable completing those missions on a DPS where they can perform average or sub-par and get away with it because they are being carried by a good tank/heal combo, or the other DPS is outputting enough damage to make up for the lack of the other.

[Spiritreaver1217]

..Snip..

What you describe is not a solely FFXIV problem and imo it is not so much a problem as a part of mmo's in general. Not a good part, but a part all the same. I mean for all the flash and cool graphics and such, mmo's haven't really changed that much since they first hit in the '90's.

New content hits and old content is replaced. Yeah, companies put their own spin on the cycle and some like SE even try to keep old content semi-relevant(Roulettes for examplethat have you replay old content for current rewards that are periodically updated), but the cycle is what it is.

..Snip..

You are right that there isn't a whole lot of actual EG cntent in FFXIV at present. I would put forward though that the game is still very early in its life-cycle. Using SE's only other MMO that i have played for comparison, where the game is right now is just before the Rise of the Zilart expansion for FFXI. And that is way early to really expect a super robust EG scene imo.

[The_Last_Dragoon]

"Shouldn't" and "don't" are two very separate terms.

.....are you telling me that you haven't encountered a terrible tank in Stone Vigil who obviously knew nothing about their job? Warrior's without Defiance turned on, Paladin's get Shield Oath at level 40 but going into SV with Sword Oath still on. Telling them to switch to Shield Oath only to find that they haven't done their level 40 Job quest yet?? And then, these tanks who refuse to pop into their stance also don't rotate cooldowns on big pulls or bosses. I've had a Warrior tell me he won't turn Defiance on because it lowers his DPS....in a 4man low level dungeon.


And heals who DPS is a legitimate problem? If a healer (especially a scholar) can keep the party alive and throw out some dots or any DPS at all it is an absolute delight to have in the party because it makes killing that much quicker. I won't be the one to chastise a healer who doesn't DPS, but in a lot of low level content if the tank is doing his job correctly there is a LOT of downtime as a healer. I had absolutely no problem DPSing twice as much as healing when leveling my WHM to 50 in every low level dungeon outside of the final 3, because the damage is real from Stone Vigil onwards.

I'm sorry, I guess I didn't clarify enough on that point. I'm fully agreeing with what you're saying, because yes, I've run into Tanks/Heals who haven't done their job quest yet, and the result is that the dungeon quite literally becomes impossible unless everyone else is over-geared. I was trying to say that by making it so that players cannot skip that content, it makes it so that (hopefully) this problem doesn't spread to the new content. I put "shouldn't" because you can't stop lv50 players from fate grinding out their brand new Dark Knight and then running dungeons with it to speed through the new story.

I've run into the tanks and healers that you describe, and I was trying to say that I see them as a very serious problem. Mostly because these people are usually apprehensive and possibly already have a lv50 class, but have never played their role before. It also doesn't help that these people can't really even be kicked, because if they have the in-progress option checked then they will normally just re-insert themselves into the group. That's not to say that they aren't all that way though, and I've helped players know what they need to do in order to unlock that job class and then kick them if it's apparent that the dungeon can't be done with how they currently are.

I'm not against heals dps'ing and I share your stance that it does in fact make the run MUCH smoother in level sync'd dungeons, I've legitimately met healers in the DF who think that they queued as damage. I specifically remember it happening in Cutter's Cry. They don't heal at all, and since most players are over-geared by now, it doesn't become apparent unless the tank speaks up or, in our case, when all of the adds in the first boss didn't follow the healer because he wasn't healing.