Are the Twelve Primals too?

[Elladie]

Apologies if this has already been discussed, I couldn't find mention of it on the lore forums. During the quest An Univited Ascian, Nabriales says explicitly to Minfilia that the staff Tupsumati is able to draw upon a vast amount of ether from its surroundings. He also states that this was why Louisoix didn't need a large number of crystals to summon the Twelve. This seems like an explicit statement that the Twelve are primals. Yet the peoples of Eorzea treat the Twelve with veneration whereas Ifrit et al are seen as monstrous. Are there different degrees of 'primal ness'?
Also what is the 'horn' that Nabriales mentions in the same conversation?

[Anonymoose]

That's one of the bigger questions in the game (well, more specifically, if the Twelve are independently real). From Gaius van Baelsar to Louisoix to the Ascians themselves, everyone seems convinced that anything that comes out of a summoning is going to be an aether-sucking primal(-like entity).

But does something exist? Are there Twelve true gods? Ascended mortals? Mortals that history remembers inaccurately? We're not sure yet.

We can be pretty confident that summoning them is a bad idea, though.

[Ninimo_Babamo]

That's one of the bigger questions in the game (well, more specifically, if the Twelve are independently real). From Gaius van Baelsar to Louisoix to the Ascians themselves, everyone seems convinced that anything that comes out of a summoning is going to be an aether-sucking primal(-like entity).

But does something exist? Are there Twelve true gods? Ascended mortals? Mortals that history remembers inaccurately? We're not sure yet.

We can be pretty confident that summoning them is a bad idea, though.

I can't believe you're still here.

Anyway, seeing as Louisoix did have us pray to the 12 at the end of 1.0 for their aid, as I'm sure you remember, and we did see some evidence of Louisoix using their power to contain Bahamut, I think it's safe to say that something of them does exist. Something of them must be real, but that doesn't necessarily mean they are all powerful, or even as powerful as a primal.

[Mishini_Dracoto]

There are a couple different intertwining, interfering questions here. Allow me to try to disentangle.

This was a great post, and as far as the over arching argument about Primals, this is one of the better explanations I've seen so far, and I fully agree with what you are saying.

To anybody else reading this, if you missed that post, and are still looking for info on any primal, re read what was said there.

But does something exist? Are there Twelve true gods? Ascended mortals? Mortals that history remembers inaccurately? We're not sure yet.

I think it's safe to say that something of them does exist.

Moose is just pointing out some unanswered metaphysical questions. I agree with your assumptions, however, I also don't think anything needed to be there before hand, so it's possible they are fictional. . .

[Cilia]

Well, it takes just a little research. Primals are identified as banshin in the Japanese version, which literally translates to "barbarian gods." They're basically just the beastman answer to the Eorzean pantheon, religiously speaking.

Summoning one of the Twelve is still a really, really bad idea, as it would eat up aether just like summoning a Primal would. Gaius helpfully pointed out this similarity prior to going Super Sai- err, powering up for your fight with him.

[MaethusXion]

The Twelve are likely primals the same way Enkidu, Shiva, and King Moggle Mog are. IE, with enough crystals/aether and enough belief you can bring them to life as a primal-like entity. There was even a MSQ where a kid from Ala Mhigo wanted to steal Amal'jaa crystals to summon their deity because of an Ascian telling him that he could

[Zohar_Lahar]

The Twelve are likely primals the same way Enkidu, Shiva, and King Moggle Mog are. IE, with enough crystals/aether and enough belief you can bring them to life as a primal-like entity. There was even a MSQ where a kid from Ala Mhigo wanted to steal Amal'jaa crystals to summon their deity because of an Ascian telling him that he could

I imagine Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Leviathan, and Ramuh originated in the same way at some point.

[MaethusXion]

Atomos has been confirmed to be a voidsent in the past. I suspect that a prime is in some unconfirmed way an essence from which a projection is established in an unconfirmed manner. In World of Darkness, the Prime (visually a crystal) was feeding aether to allow the Atomos to manifest.

Atomos was called as Voidsent in the final days of 1.23(for those that didn't know). Also remember there were 3 Atomos in the LotA. Maybe Atomos Prime is the source and the others clones, like the trash fights having clones of LotA and ST bosses?

Basically just saying the same thing as Anonymoose here, just adding in a few more examples of possible clones or projections.

[DracotheDragon]

I imagine Ifrit, Titan, Garuda, Leviathan, and Ramuh originated in the same way at some point.

if memory serves me correctly (info i got some info from 1.0 players) (spoiler is ones are hidden)
Ifrit was an amalj'aa thaumatage.

Garuda was possibly a siren (or metaphorical god of the ixali that became physical then snapped) (the triple triad card is a mix of the two)
Titan (using some 1.0 and 2.0) was a kobold myhtical golem who would protect the kobolds and there caves.
Leviathan mythical sea monster
ramuh (no real info on this one) most likely was a famed scholar who was looked at highly by the sylphs.

zentetsuken ( and in turn odin) was summoned by the wishes for a weapon to test the mantle of men.
bahamut (using 3.0 info here) was one of the son's of midgardsommr, who could of been once been a large fluffy like dragon (like how the 7 sons are shown in public artwork) before being summoned by the mercydians (and possibly molded more into there image)

the twelve, were technically summoned by lousoix and the archons, lived a short 'life' creating a Dalamud before being destroyed, (weather this was a proper summon is debated so far)

and Phoenix was created from the prayers and memories of the end of the calamity and people prayed for rebirth

finally RNGeesus the strongest primal of them all he only excists in the meta screwing us over >:C (i had to throw a joke one in)

[myahele]

Somebody mentioned that Atomos is a primal also, since in WoD we face Atomos Prime and that the crystal was actually Atomos?

If such a thing is to be believed, then the 12 do exist since they appeared to Louisoix in a form of crystals.