Opinions on a "Vote: Timer Reset" for DF parties on the cusp of a clear?

[Saviorlito]

I've read some posts in various topics about people experiencing decent groups in DF, but not able to clear because they've run out of time. I was thinking that maybe implementing a Vote: Timer Reset option that pops up 5 minutes before the encounter ends might be a good idea. Sometimes you just don't have enough time with the same people to get a clear. If the vote passes, let's say 5 to 3, the 3 who do not want to continue have the option to leave without penalty and the timer is reset, allowing more people to join in progress. If no one joins within an allotted time, the instance ends. If a single person joins, the timer on the allotted time is extended by x minutes once. Do you think this would be a good addition to the game? What are some thoughts/comments about this (positive or negative)?

[kyuven]

I only see this as being abused by groups to "No-Life" content such as coil. The timers exist for a reason.
Which is honestly the only thing you need the full timer for anyway. If over an hour has passed and you STILL haven't cleared, perhaps a break is in order.

[Saviorlito]

Maybe you could give me an example of how it would be "abused"? Do you mean extending the timer so the same preformed group can continue doing content that they would otherwise just leave and reenter, saving a total of, let's say, 10 seconds?

EDIT: And sometimes, all you might have needed was one more attempt with the same group, rather than starting from the beginning another 30 times only to have groups break/rage/not even try.

[kyuven]

Maybe you could give me an example of how it would be "abused"? Do you mean extending the timer so the same preformed group can continue doing content that they would otherwise just leave and reenter, saving a total of, let's say, 10 seconds?

The timer exists as an incentive to ensure you beat it in a timely manner. The same basic reason behind enrage timers. The way it can be abused is people resetting the timer just to enjoy a "private" instance all to themselves for whatever reason, which isn't the desired purpose. If people so wanted, they could abuse this system to bog down the servers.
Though that's hyperbole (but don't underestimate player assholery) it's also important that the timer encourages players to take a break, even if it's 10 seconds.
In addition, again, the timers are currently more than generous enough. If you're STILL trying to beat something other than coil after the timer expires, maybe you SHOULD be encouraged to take a break, maybe try something else.
Oh, and it can also be used to form "traps." Groups that will be accomplishing nothing, are incapable of winning the fight for whatever reason, but because one guy doesn't want to leave, people keep getting matched to it. This type of behavior helps no one and is already a possible problem in the current system.

[Ryel]

This would be a pretty cool idea to be honest.

You often find that in the DF you have fresh people joining raids etc that are learning content at different rates, so not only are they trying to get used to the boss mechanics but they're adapting their play-styles to the others in the party. Something like this could probably give groups who are close to completing the extra bit they need to clear.

I only see this as being abused by groups to "No-Life" content such as coil. The timers exist for a reason.
Which is honestly the only thing you need the full timer for anyway. If over an hour has passed and you STILL haven't cleared, perhaps a break is in order.

I fail to see how giving players more attempts to clear content is an abuse of anything to be honest, similar systems have already existed in games like WoW for years with very little issues.

Right now if players want they're able to just re-queue instances anyway, but instead of having the same group / chance they did before they'll essentially lose the progress they made with the previous group only to start all over again with an entire new set of people, sometimes it's a positive but usually not.

As long as players are able to leave out of the instance as they wish once the time is over something like this seems like it would be a win/win for all.

Piggybacking on this it'd also be nice to add a queue with current group option to instances as well, a feature WoW actually has. Sometimes you end up with a cross server group that's pretty chill and it'd be nice to run more with them instead of just leaving the instance and never seeing any of them again.

[kyuven]

I fail to see how giving players more attempts to clear content is an abuse of anything to be honest.

They why have timers at all? They exist for a reason. The content was designed to be done within this amount of time.
It's also to help keep the queues moving.
Sure it sucks you can't group with the same people you worked well with, but by "freeing up" your group and requeuing normally, you end up with different people this time who have been waiting in the queue for a chance at the same thing. Without this, with the option to just take as long as you want, the queues move slower as there's less "movement" in the queue.
Think of it like a restaurant. After a certain point, waiters will get rather passive-aggressively insistent that you pay your bill and leave because they need the table. The game's instance server is very similar.
Perpetual instancing was a thing in a few very, very early MMOs, but it turned out to be troublesome having people never leaving the instance servers, so timers are now standard.

[Saviorlito]

I couldn't disagree with you more than I do right now. For one, 10 seconds is not a break. I did hardcore progression which consisted of 12hr/day raiding for 2.4. I never once considered leaving the instance and rejoining immediately a break. Our breaks were...breaks and usually lasted around 10-15 minutes. If we could vote to extend the timer, we probably would have unless someone had to exit to repair. I don't consider this abuse. If someone wants to enter a dungeon solo dolo or with their mate to RP, that's what restrictions are for (ie something like one vote-extend per session or no voting to extend without a full group in the instance). If there are people that want to join an instance to do these things, they're going to join an instance to do these things, whether you can vote extend it or not. I don't see how this would ADD to it.

[Saviorlito]

In my example, people will have the option to vote no and leave without penalty. So the "trap" groups would only continue if everyone wanted them to continue. If three people in a "trap" group don't want to continue, they'll leave. If 4 or 5 people don't want to, the vote won't pass, and the instance will end. If you are getting to enrage with 30% left on the boss' HP, not very many people are going to want to continue that past the allotted time limit, or even to the end of the time limit. We're talking more groups that PROGRESS in DF together and manage to get the boss to 5-10% with 5 minutes left on the DF timer. It would seem pretty crappy, to me at least, if they didn't have an option to continue and had to start from the beginning for the next x days until they cleared. It's easy for people like you and me to say "no, you need a break", because we have groups that we do content with. This is directed towards people who DON'T have that luxury.

[Saviorlito]

Perpetual instancing was a thing in a few very, very early MMOs, but it turned out to be troublesome having people never leaving the instance servers, so timers are now standard.

There would still be limitation, for instance, one vote-extend per instance for .x the initial duration. Issue?

[kyuven]

In my example, people will have the option to vote no and leave without penalty. So the "trap" groups would only continue if everyone wanted them to continue. .

You're missing the point of what the "Trap" groups are.
A trap group would constantly set the group to refill, and people would join constantly expecting to actually do the content. Even though they can leave at any time, the timer will be constantly reset so people will constantly get paired with this group, which is doing nothing.
In other words, a single person can screw with an entire data center by doing nothing but clicking a box every hour and moving his character every 5 minutes.

And this sort of thing already happens, but since they get kicked out of the instance after the time expires it's less of a problem.

And then there's the votekick problem. Let's say you're doing this wonderful group but one of your members is slacking, so you kick him. Then he rejoins. You can NEVER be rid of him. This actually happens a lot with certain less popular dungeons at non-peak hours, and would only be exacerbated by a lack of a timer.

And again: If this is the case, why not just get rid of timers?
Why bother having timers if you can just reset it?

There would still be limitation, for instance, one vote-extend per instance for .x the initial duration. Issue?

Again, then, why bother having timers?
And again, outside coil, if you're not able to beat it within the time allotted, you REALLY should take a break. The game is trying to tell you this.
Also, what about repairs? If you're going after this fight for 2 hours, you'll likely need repairs at some point. Not everyone is a crafter.

In truth, this would require a lot of effort and testing to pull off for very little return. Most parties who go into DF will either clear it in the time allotted, or not be able to clear it. The number of "Just 5 more minutes!" groups is far outweighed by the first two categories.