Patch Notes are up!

[Jamein]

Everyone in that thread except Alpal (the OP) is saying it's doable/not too hard. I read five pages in. Skipped forward 10 more. Skipped forward again. Could not find anyone but him being like "Yeah, it's too hard." Just lots of people saying "I did it--here's how"

I edited my post to get the point I was trying to make across, as it was a little messy I grant you that.
Everyone was agreeing, that it was the PLAYERS who were the problem. Not the actual fight itself. In essence saying it was too hard to communicate. The abandoning issue wasn't the main problem, it was that the fight required people to actually have some level of communication and that was apparently too much. Also the players responding were pretty much the ones who HAD cleared it, of course they weren't going to say it was too hard. I was mainly pointing out the people who couldn't clear it would say it was too hard, that was just an example, there have been multiple threads on the forums since then about SoF saying it's to hard for duty roulette, should be moved to trial, should be made easier for main scenario fight etc etc.

Those complaints along with the multiple other threads about SoF have pretty much ensured you will not see a fight like this again, which is sad as it was something different. As a playerbase I would've hoped to see less complaining and more just doing the fight and actually working with each other. Another reason why I don't bother with roulettes anymore, I just stick to PF's and a static.

Maybe I'm part of the problem for that, I dunno, but going into DF's and attempting to explain fights to people only to watch them ignore any advice just aint fun for me.

Anyway, I think I have gone on a HUGE tangent, my original point was people complained about SoF be it asking for nerfs, or simply because the fight required some sort of communication which was the players fault, and in turn got the thing nerfed to the floor, and probably guarenteed we wont see anything out of the normal tank and spank again in story mode.

[Krylo]

The abandoning issue wasn't the main problem

Maybe not for the first couple days, when everyone was learning it (and only one person was saying it was hard), but:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Steps-of-Faith Here's the thread where SE finally decided to 'do something'.

What is it complaining about?

And, no, the problem isn't REALLY abandons. It's that abandoning, is, hands down, the SMART thing to do. SoF, even if everything goes perfectly and no one has to explain anything, takes at least 9 minutes. Garuda HM, takes, what? 2? 3? Ifrit about the same. Really every other trial in there is under 5 minutes. Every other trial also gives better rewards.

Like you said: Why would you waste an hour of your time helping new people for nothing? I mean, some people do. Those are good people. But not doing it doesn't make you a bad person. It means SE made a bad design decision, but not in the difficulty. In the lack of rewards. People here, and there, and in the thread you linked even, have said it'd be fine with a particularly high new player bonus, or a mount drop, or a TT card, or just, ANYTHING to make doing it worth while (and possibly moving it to Main Scenario Roulette, where people are expecting to spend upwards of a half hour in a dungeon, not under 5).

[Jamein]

Maybe not for the first couple days, when everyone was learning it (and only one person was saying it was hard), but:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Steps-of-Faith Here's the thread where SE finally decided to 'do something'.

What is it complaining about?

Cause and effect.

People leaving were not the initial cause, the cause was that some people simply couldn't do the content because it required some level of thought, i.e raised difficulty level because it wasn't simply tank and spank.
People being unable to deal with basics in the game caused the trial to be a nightmare to go into, which had the result of people leaving the duty (and I agree, this is an absolute douche thing to do)
So everyone complaining about SoF, look into the reasoning behind why they say people abandon, some people on the next page of that thread saying it's because people don't know what to do, or if you miss a dragon killer it's a wipe, someone even says it is too 'unforgiving' which I just find...

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying the abandoning problem stems more from people thinking the fight itself is too hard for PUGS and don't want to waste their time on it. So asking to fix that is pretty much asking for a nerf and you know it. There's already a penalty for leaving DF.

And, no, the problem isn't REALLY abandons. It's that abandoning, is, hands down, the SMART thing to do.

Just saw you edit your post, and this is what it comes down too yes, and that's because when people are presented with a fight that isn't an easy tank and spank, they run a mile.

[Krylo]

People being unable to deal with basics in the game caused the trial to be a nightmare to go into, which had the result of people leaving the duty

Nope.

Queuing for something (trial roulette) they thought would take 2 minutes, and then having to spend 3 minutes explaining, 9 minutes failing, 9 minutes failing again, and then 9 minutes succeeding did that. Even the absolute best case scenario is using 1/3rd of your lock out time for leaving for no rewards except 15 soldiery and 7 poetics. A whole 3/2 more than Garuda HM, but with no chance at weapon (glamour or GC seals) or TT card, while taking 5 times as long. You could do literally anything else in that time and get better rewards. And that's best case. Average for ANY trial with a good portion of first timers is 2-3 wipes. That's over 30 minutes, longer than your lockout, to get. . . basically nothing.

It's how long the wipes took. Not that they happened. Chrysalis wiped constantly when it was new, too. On day 1 it took me about 3 or 4 DF groups to find one that could do it, running out the clock on the trial at least twice. No one seriously complained about it. It's still not nerfed.

Edit: I edit posts a lot within the first 10-30 seconds because of the 1000 character limit. Which is annoying/stupid.

[Jamein]

Queuing for something (trial roulette) they thought would take 2 minutes, and then having to spend 3 minutes explaining, 9 minutes failing, 9 minutes failing again, and then 9 minutes succeeding did that. Even the absolute best case scenario is using 1/3rd of your lock out time for leaving for no rewards except 15 soldiery and 7 poetics. A whole 3/2 more than Garuda HM, but with no chance at weapon (glamour or GC seals) or TT card, while taking 5 times as long. You could do literally anything else in that time and get better rewards. And that's best case. Average for ANY trial with a good portion of first timers is 2-3 wipes. That's over 30 minutes, longer than your lockout, to get. . . basically nothing.

I can see your point, but that would cause people to NOT sign up in my opinion, because if you were to sign up, get SoF and leave without even trying you then run the risk of getting SoF again on your next run, then you've just wasted an hour doing absolutely nothing at all because you have the penalty.

Look, I am not disagreeing with you on how people are abandoning it causing more problems. I'm just saying that the whole reason that trial is causing problems, is because the average skill level of the playerbase is pretty damn low and they find something like that too much to deal with in a PUG. So in essence, asking for ANY change to that fight, is asking for a nerf (aside from the idea that you could reset the fight rather than waiting 9 minutes for it to finish, that idea I actually absolutely agree with).