Patch Notes are up!

[AdamFyi]

Oh and all the people talking about "The fight is all about communication." Try clearing it when you get 7 freaking french/german people that speak no word English even tho you only hooked E on the Duty Finder that dont say a single word before pulling (not even hello in auto translate or whatsoever). Good luck making it about "communication" - there is no way in hell you will make it through if you can not explain the fight

You're kind of reinforcing the point though. No communication = problem.

Granted: But people keep trying to blame 'casuals' for this nerf (like it even matters), but if you read any pre-nerf discussion about SoF with mostly people who haven't cleared: No one wanted a nerf. They just wanted players to not abandon immediately.

Yep, which is what I was addressing. There are players on both sides that rage quit because they didn't get what they want. Some players quit because they got a trial they didn't want, and some quit because they didn't get a free carry and instead got a ton of wipes. Both are impatient, in my opinion.

Can't even attempt to make your own way when 4/8 people immediately leave because they wanted 2-5 minute trial and got 15-80 minute trial with no rewards to speak of. Unfortunately, Vishap can't be 4 manned by the 3 DPS and 1 healer left over.

Which is why I run Steps of Faith as a Tank. At least with a tank, we can still beat the fight without a healer. xD

[Greaf]

The Steps of Faith isn't even that difficult. Communication; is it too hard in an MMO setting? The nerf is welcome. For players who are stuck, they can finally advance to Heavensward. But my only concern is communication. Is it really that hard to comunicate?

With this community, I think yes

[Magistrella]

You're kind of reinforcing the point though. No communication = problem.

I didnt say it wasn't ^^ But the lack of communication is not the same as the inability of communication. If you can not communicate you stand no chance on beating content that depends on it. If you're getting people that are unwilling to communicate, but are totally capable of it, that's a whole different problem of the matter :/

[Nalien]

Oh and all the people talking about "The fight is all about communication." Try clearing it when you get 7 freaking french/german people that speak no word English even tho you only hooked E on the Duty Finder that dont say a single word before pulling (not even hello in auto translate or whatsoever). Good luck making it about "communication" - there is no way in hell you will make it through if you can not explain the fight

Doesn't that just back up what I'm saying? If your group don't communicate, they're not going to win. Yeah there are plenty of people in the Duty Finder who seem to our right refuse to communicate, that's the issue SE needs to address, not the "difficulty" of content. Continually making it so content doesn't require a word of communication is one of the biggest problems in this game. It's the reason so many find T5 difficult. It's the reason so many can't even attempt Primal EXs.

This games casual content doesn't really require any communication, and as a result it's breed players who think that's OK to queue up solo and say nothing. Hardcore content requires communication. Steps of Faith is the first time real time such content has made its way into the main quest. It is by no means difficult, but it requires everyone to communicate.

I didnt say it wasn't ^^ But the lack of communication is not the same as the inability of communication. If you can not communicate you stand no chance on beating content that depends on it. If you're getting people that are unwilling to communicate, but are totally capable of it, that's a whole different problem of the matter :/

Disregard the start of this post then xD

The fact that SE has basically enabled this problem remains though. By making it so everyone can progress by just queuing solo and saying nothing to anybody, they've given the impression that this is OK behaviour. In an MMO it really isn't though.

[Lemuria]

I can't say I'm surprised to see this nerf. Somehow I expected it would come sooner or later. I didn't think it was too difficult when I beat it first time around, but I can understand the frustration of players in teams who either aren't able or are unwilling to communicate properly.

The more people who beat the content though, the better. After all, we need to warm the benches for Heavensward.

[Jamein]

Granted: But in the greater context of this thread people keep trying to blame 'casuals' for this nerf (like it even matters), but if you read any pre-nerf discussion about SoF with mostly people who haven't cleared: No one wanted a nerf. They just wanted players to not abandon immediately.

Sorry, but I must direct your attention to this thread
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...al-is-too-hard
47 pages, and it was created the SAME DAY that steps of faith was released on the 31st of March. People were shouting about it being 'too hard' within hours, without even trying, because they couldn't one shot the damn thing. Granted that thread has a lot of back and forth later on and people arguing both sides of the coin. I just find it amazing the thread existed in the first place. Couple that with the people already saying it was too hard in game. Or saying communication was impossible, which is down to the players, not the game.

This is one of the reasons why people just facepalm at the nerfs sometimes, because people barely even try they just head straight to SE and ask for it to be made easier instead of as a playerbase, trying to improve a little more.

I'll admit, people leaving trial roulettes are not helping matters at all, or people like me who don't sign up aren't either. But I never signed up before steps so I don't see why I should start doing that, I capped poetics in coil every week and I don't need solds. I am not obligated to go do the roulette and sometimes waste hours of my time. I'm all for helping people, but when people don't even want to help themselves....it gets kind of hard.

Just my opinion on it anyway.

[Krylo]

Snip.

Everyone in that thread except Alpal (the OP) is saying it's doable/not too hard. I read five pages in. Skipped forward 10 more. Skipped forward again. Could not find anyone but him being like "Yeah, it's too hard." Just lots of people saying "I did it--here's how"

[Crescent_Dusk]

Doesn't that just back up what I'm saying? If your group don't communicate, they're not going to win. Yeah there are plenty of people in the Duty Finder who seem to our right refuse to communicate, that's the issue SE needs to address, not the "difficulty" of content. Continually making it so content doesn't require a word of communication is one of the biggest problems in this game. It's the reason so many find T5 difficult. It's the reason so many can't even attempt Primal EXs.

This games casual content doesn't really require any communication, and as a result it's breed players who think that's OK to queue up solo and say nothing. Hardcore content requires communication. Steps of Faith is the first time real time such content has made its way into the main quest. It is by no means difficult, but it requires everyone to communicate.



Disregard the start of this post then xD

The fact that SE has basically enabled this problem remains though. By making it so everyone can progress by just queuing solo and saying nothing to anybody, they've given the impression that this is OK behaviour. In an MMO it really isn't though.

And why is that wrong? Independent play was one of the best inventions for the casual player. Depending on other people for content clears is TIME CONSUMING, and not everyone has 3-5 hour play sessions to spare.

I remember my Burning Crusade and Vanilla days in WoW where there was no cross server, and it took virtually an hour just to form a party, only to enter a dungeon and lose one or more hour finding out the people you went with were not skilled enough for the content and your time was wasted.

What you say is wrong is actually rather successful for Yoshi P. It's a game where you log on, get in on the action fairly quick without tedious and long periods of preparation, get your quick fix of entertainment, get your rewards, and can log off in an hour or two.

It's not what all of us may enjoy as gamers, but it is pretty damn accessible and a marvelous business model. The era of the devoted nerd dominating games is coming to a close, I'm sorry to say. Videogames are for more people than just college students or low/middle income employees with time to spare.

[Jamein]

Everyone in that thread except Alpal (the OP) is saying it's doable/not too hard. I read five pages in. Skipped forward 10 more. Skipped forward again. Could not find anyone but him being like "Yeah, it's too hard." Just lots of people saying "I did it--here's how"

I edited my post to get the point I was trying to make across, as it was a little messy I grant you that.
Everyone was agreeing, that it was the PLAYERS who were the problem. Not the actual fight itself. In essence saying it was too hard to communicate. The abandoning issue wasn't the main problem, it was that the fight required people to actually have some level of communication and that was apparently too much. Also the players responding were pretty much the ones who HAD cleared it, of course they weren't going to say it was too hard. I was mainly pointing out the people who couldn't clear it would say it was too hard, that was just an example, there have been multiple threads on the forums since then about SoF saying it's to hard for duty roulette, should be moved to trial, should be made easier for main scenario fight etc etc.

Those complaints along with the multiple other threads about SoF have pretty much ensured you will not see a fight like this again, which is sad as it was something different. As a playerbase I would've hoped to see less complaining and more just doing the fight and actually working with each other. Another reason why I don't bother with roulettes anymore, I just stick to PF's and a static.

Maybe I'm part of the problem for that, I dunno, but going into DF's and attempting to explain fights to people only to watch them ignore any advice just aint fun for me.

Anyway, I think I have gone on a HUGE tangent, my original point was people complained about SoF be it asking for nerfs, or simply because the fight required some sort of communication which was the players fault, and in turn got the thing nerfed to the floor, and probably guarenteed we wont see anything out of the normal tank and spank again in story mode.

[Krylo]

The abandoning issue wasn't the main problem

Maybe not for the first couple days, when everyone was learning it (and only one person was saying it was hard), but:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Steps-of-Faith Here's the thread where SE finally decided to 'do something'.

What is it complaining about?

And, no, the problem isn't REALLY abandons. It's that abandoning, is, hands down, the SMART thing to do. SoF, even if everything goes perfectly and no one has to explain anything, takes at least 9 minutes. Garuda HM, takes, what? 2? 3? Ifrit about the same. Really every other trial in there is under 5 minutes. Every other trial also gives better rewards.

Like you said: Why would you waste an hour of your time helping new people for nothing? I mean, some people do. Those are good people. But not doing it doesn't make you a bad person. It means SE made a bad design decision, but not in the difficulty. In the lack of rewards. People here, and there, and in the thread you linked even, have said it'd be fine with a particularly high new player bonus, or a mount drop, or a TT card, or just, ANYTHING to make doing it worth while (and possibly moving it to Main Scenario Roulette, where people are expecting to spend upwards of a half hour in a dungeon, not under 5).