Patch Notes are up!

[KarstenS]

The problem was the people who cleared day 1 and abandoned.

And this opinion is the reason so many people are raging against the raiding community.

They don't want to make their own way. They want a carry.

[Krylo]

Read the quote I was replying to. Without any context as to what I said, you're creating an argument from nothing. Hint: I was addressing players who "Rage Quit".

Granted: But in the greater context of this thread people keep trying to blame 'casuals' for this nerf (like it even matters), but if you read any pre-nerf discussion about SoF with mostly people who haven't cleared: No one wanted a nerf. They just wanted players to not abandon immediately.

And this opinion is the reason so many people are raging against the raiding community.

They don't want to make their own way. They want a carry.

Can't even attempt to make your own way when 4/8 people immediately leave because they wanted 2-5 minute trial and got 15-80 minute trial with no rewards to speak of. Unfortunately, Vishap can't be 4 manned by the 3 DPS and 1 healer left over.

Im guilty of all your charges except the not doing trial. I still do it, i just do all the others to prevent having to deal with steps of fails.

And i will continue to do so. One (most likely) fail in there, hell, even a not fail taking 10-15 minutes, is taking two or three times as much as every other trial fight. I'll gladly take the 30 minutes and do other daily chores before reentering and getting something else. My time is spent much better when i don't deal with it. And that's where the problem ultimately lies. Add a mount to it, add a trial card, make it drop 200 soldier for new people or 10k gil if you got a newbie with you. Hell, the 10k (+4.5k roulette bonus) would make me stay if i got more then two-three hours on a workday to play. But as it is now, i don't even want to deal it on my free days where i can basically sit the whole day in front of the game, and not even then i want to add just any of my time in there.

Thank you. This is what I'm trying to get across. There's a good reason people do those things. That's what SE needs to fix. Are you going to go in there now and do 15 minutes for nothing? Especially with 1 wipe still being possible if not likely with enough new people learning mechanics (missing DKs, missing with canons, etc.) I think most people probably won't regardless of nerfs.

[Jamein]

Granted: But in the greater context of this thread people keep trying to blame 'casuals' for this nerf (like it even matters), but if you read any pre-nerf discussion about SoF with mostly people who haven't cleared: No one wanted a nerf. They just wanted players to not abandon immediately.

Sorry, but I must direct your attention to this thread
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...al-is-too-hard
47 pages, and it was created the SAME DAY that steps of faith was released on the 31st of March. People were shouting about it being 'too hard' within hours, without even trying, because they couldn't one shot the damn thing. Granted that thread has a lot of back and forth later on and people arguing both sides of the coin. I just find it amazing the thread existed in the first place. Couple that with the people already saying it was too hard in game. Or saying communication was impossible, which is down to the players, not the game.

This is one of the reasons why people just facepalm at the nerfs sometimes, because people barely even try they just head straight to SE and ask for it to be made easier instead of as a playerbase, trying to improve a little more.

I'll admit, people leaving trial roulettes are not helping matters at all, or people like me who don't sign up aren't either. But I never signed up before steps so I don't see why I should start doing that, I capped poetics in coil every week and I don't need solds. I am not obligated to go do the roulette and sometimes waste hours of my time. I'm all for helping people, but when people don't even want to help themselves....it gets kind of hard.

Just my opinion on it anyway.

[Krylo]

Snip.

Everyone in that thread except Alpal (the OP) is saying it's doable/not too hard. I read five pages in. Skipped forward 10 more. Skipped forward again. Could not find anyone but him being like "Yeah, it's too hard." Just lots of people saying "I did it--here's how"

[Jamein]

Everyone in that thread except Alpal (the OP) is saying it's doable/not too hard. I read five pages in. Skipped forward 10 more. Skipped forward again. Could not find anyone but him being like "Yeah, it's too hard." Just lots of people saying "I did it--here's how"

I edited my post to get the point I was trying to make across, as it was a little messy I grant you that.
Everyone was agreeing, that it was the PLAYERS who were the problem. Not the actual fight itself. In essence saying it was too hard to communicate. The abandoning issue wasn't the main problem, it was that the fight required people to actually have some level of communication and that was apparently too much. Also the players responding were pretty much the ones who HAD cleared it, of course they weren't going to say it was too hard. I was mainly pointing out the people who couldn't clear it would say it was too hard, that was just an example, there have been multiple threads on the forums since then about SoF saying it's to hard for duty roulette, should be moved to trial, should be made easier for main scenario fight etc etc.

Those complaints along with the multiple other threads about SoF have pretty much ensured you will not see a fight like this again, which is sad as it was something different. As a playerbase I would've hoped to see less complaining and more just doing the fight and actually working with each other. Another reason why I don't bother with roulettes anymore, I just stick to PF's and a static.

Maybe I'm part of the problem for that, I dunno, but going into DF's and attempting to explain fights to people only to watch them ignore any advice just aint fun for me.

Anyway, I think I have gone on a HUGE tangent, my original point was people complained about SoF be it asking for nerfs, or simply because the fight required some sort of communication which was the players fault, and in turn got the thing nerfed to the floor, and probably guarenteed we wont see anything out of the normal tank and spank again in story mode.

[Krylo]

The abandoning issue wasn't the main problem

Maybe not for the first couple days, when everyone was learning it (and only one person was saying it was hard), but:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Steps-of-Faith Here's the thread where SE finally decided to 'do something'.

What is it complaining about?

And, no, the problem isn't REALLY abandons. It's that abandoning, is, hands down, the SMART thing to do. SoF, even if everything goes perfectly and no one has to explain anything, takes at least 9 minutes. Garuda HM, takes, what? 2? 3? Ifrit about the same. Really every other trial in there is under 5 minutes. Every other trial also gives better rewards.

Like you said: Why would you waste an hour of your time helping new people for nothing? I mean, some people do. Those are good people. But not doing it doesn't make you a bad person. It means SE made a bad design decision, but not in the difficulty. In the lack of rewards. People here, and there, and in the thread you linked even, have said it'd be fine with a particularly high new player bonus, or a mount drop, or a TT card, or just, ANYTHING to make doing it worth while (and possibly moving it to Main Scenario Roulette, where people are expecting to spend upwards of a half hour in a dungeon, not under 5).

[Jamein]

Maybe not for the first couple days, when everyone was learning it (and only one person was saying it was hard), but:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...Steps-of-Faith Here's the thread where SE finally decided to 'do something'.

What is it complaining about?

Cause and effect.

People leaving were not the initial cause, the cause was that some people simply couldn't do the content because it required some level of thought, i.e raised difficulty level because it wasn't simply tank and spank.
People being unable to deal with basics in the game caused the trial to be a nightmare to go into, which had the result of people leaving the duty (and I agree, this is an absolute douche thing to do)
So everyone complaining about SoF, look into the reasoning behind why they say people abandon, some people on the next page of that thread saying it's because people don't know what to do, or if you miss a dragon killer it's a wipe, someone even says it is too 'unforgiving' which I just find...

I'm not saying you are wrong, I'm just saying the abandoning problem stems more from people thinking the fight itself is too hard for PUGS and don't want to waste their time on it. So asking to fix that is pretty much asking for a nerf and you know it. There's already a penalty for leaving DF.

And, no, the problem isn't REALLY abandons. It's that abandoning, is, hands down, the SMART thing to do.

Just saw you edit your post, and this is what it comes down too yes, and that's because when people are presented with a fight that isn't an easy tank and spank, they run a mile.