Thread: 2.55 Main Scenario Requirement.

Originally Posted by morruin

As a recent returnee I think the 6-10 hours mentioned is this thread is rather optimistic.

I have just taken 6 days (not full time obviously) just to clear The Chrysalis - and I benefitted from being a healer and having other (higher iLvL) people in the DF roulette.

A fresh 50/returnee player need to follow the MSQ - and gear up himself by running other content. A dps doing the MSQ after the expansion has launched will have a lot of queue time and less players in the DF (they'll be off flying around Ishgard)

I liked the solution from LoTRO. The MSQ there was split into chapters and you could start a new chapter (tied to expansions in the beginning) without having finished the last one. So your questlog could read something like
Chapter 1.12.5
Chapter 2.9.6
Chapter 3.6.8
and you could go back and finish them when you wanted, without having your progress blocked.

How much time in those 6 days did you spend trying to clear it?

Originally Posted by morruin

As a recent returnee I think the 6-10 hours mentioned is this thread is rather optimistic.

I have just taken 6 days (not full time obviously) just to clear The Chrysalis - and I benefitted from being a healer and having other (higher iLvL) people in the DF roulette.

A fresh 50/returnee player need to follow the MSQ - and gear up himself by running other content. A dps doing the MSQ after the expansion has launched will have a lot of queue time and less players in the DF (they'll be off flying around Ishgard)

I liked the solution from LoTRO. The MSQ there was split into chapters and you could start a new chapter (tied to expansions in the beginning) without having finished the last one. So your questlog could read something like
Chapter 1.12.5
Chapter 2.9.6
Chapter 3.6.8
and you could go back and finish them when you wanted, without having your progress blocked.

I would strongly suggest you join a Free Company if you want help clearing older content. This is an MMORPG and the game expects you to be social and communicate with other players to get things done. If you're in a FC and still can't find help then leave and find another because that's not a good FC.

Comparing the game LOTRO's story content doesn't work either unfortunately. LOTRO had completely separate stories per expansion so you missed nothing by skipping ahead to a future expansion's story. A player entering Ishgard having not completed the 2.x story arc will have no clue at all what is going on because it is a direct continuation of the story with the exact same cast of characters. Not to mention said player would not have access to any of the content unlocked via the 2.x story quests.

This entire game hinges on story completion to unlock access to everything. It is simply not viable to allow players to skip anything because it would result in countless players unable to access specific areas of content.

Ok so, after Praetorium, what's not skippable and required:
doing up to "More Than a Feeler" in guildhests to unlock Thornmarch HM
Thornmarch HM
Leviathan HM
Ramuh HM
Snowcloak to unlock Shiva HM
Shiva HM
The Chrysalis
Keeper of the Lake
Steps of Faith
(did I miss any, I might have)

All of which you would want to do anyway to unlock Trial Roulette, Hard Roulette, and the extreme versions of the primals. Most of the rest of the MSQ is just running back and forth doing errands, and if you're in that much of a hurry you could always skip cutscenes.

The MSQ also requires new players doing much more content outside of the MSQ in order to reach Ishgard, which still isn't that bad since the Crystal Tower trio does come with a good storyline, but it does create more of a hindrance when RNG becomes indirectly involved in how soon a new player can get into the newer content because they can't get the drops they need to reach the required ilvl for the next trial/dungeon part of the MSQ.

That being said, I do agree with most of the posts in here in that the MSQ should be a prerequisite for heavensward content for many of the aforementioned reasons. The story is worth looking more into than any other major MMORPGs out there, and understanding the mechanics from trials in content now may go to helping us in figuring out mechanics in heavensward content. I also feel that the lockouts on zones and new jobs also make sense as minor(ish) rewards for going so far in the game.....after all, what normal person enjoys dessert before dinner?

If I bought the game with the expansion at the same time (for a better price than buying just the game first and only after ending it, if I liked it, buying the expansion) I would expect to play the game and enjoy it as much as if I had played it when it was new, and when I finish it, enjoy the expansion.

I don't see a problem at all in having to finish the game before starting the expansion. Of course, it will take much less time to play the full story than people who started the first day and took much more than a year to get to the end. But that new player expects to enjoy all the way, and will see it as something to enjoy and not a chore to do until he catches up with the end game players.

The only thing I honestly find wrong with the way they're doing is the pacing problem that will occur. From 1-50 you go at a fairly steady rate, but when you get to 50, I find it hard to believe that you'd find yourself in any situation other than the current situation of how bad the queue times are for Westwind once 3.0 hits. Now, I am fully in favor of having players get out there and make friends and connections that will help them with these sort of things so that they don't have to rely on DF taking forever to pop. The problem here is that a player wouldn't have had to network before this point in time, so once they start hitting 30+ minute queues, they might be a bit confused. I'm not really sure what SE could even do to remedy this situation. I have no other name for it than the Cape Westwind effect.

There is actually some unnecessary hostility in this thread. People deny flaming, but why was anyone talking about the person who started the topic to begin with? A civil discussion would stick to the topic at hand.

On topic: I guess my main concern would be the queue times of some instanced content in the MSQ. There's even some guildhests in there. And what if most existing players migrate to Ishgard, leaving many old zones empty. New player experience is important. If they have a hard time getting help for Westwind, guildhests, etc, will they stick with the game up to the expansion areas? So I think there's a legit point in there somewhere.

Maybe they will add some new worlds/servers for 3.0 and direct new players to start there.

Originally Posted by Rufalus

There is actually some unnecessary hostility in this thread. People deny flaming, but why was anyone talking about the person who started the topic to begin with? A civil discussion would stick to the topic at hand.

On topic: I guess my main concern would be the queue times of some instanced content in the MSQ. There's even some guildhests in there. And what if most existing players migrate to Ishgard, leaving many old zones empty. New player experience is important. If they have a hard time getting help for Westwind, guildhests, etc, will they stick with the game up to the expansion areas? So I think there's a legit point in there somewhere.

Maybe they will add some new worlds/servers for 3.0 and direct new players to start there.

Heavensward is going to attract new players as well as old players who are returning. We'll have 3 new jobs to level and the current 10 that need to get to 60. If SE plays their cards right, what they will do is ensure that people can queue up the "2.0" main story roulette and maybe a "2.5 roulette" so that players can gain XP from the roulette and the dungeons/trials to level to 60. This should help significantly in the queue times for older content.

Originally Posted by Reiryuu

Heavensward is going to attract new players as well as old players who are returning. We'll have 3 new jobs to level and the current 10 that need to get to 60. If SE plays their cards right, what they will do is ensure that people can queue up the "2.0" main story roulette and maybe a "2.5 roulette" so that players can gain XP from the roulette and the dungeons/trials to level to 60. This should help significantly in the queue times for older content.

I thought you cant use the new jobs until you complete all of the story. So it goes back to the same concerns unfortunately.

Sorry if I sound like an ass, but I'm just being honest.

I see no problem in gating Ishgard behind the story. This is a story driven mmo AND it's Final fantasy, to expect little to no story like WoW is just funny to me. As the story progresses so does the game, so it makes sense. And to say "Welcome to Disneyland without a ticket" for new players just because they want the new jobs right away is just as "unfair" to the current players that have gone through the story to get there. Not to mention each job has a reason to be in Ishgard. What reason do they have to start in Eorzea? Those jobs are specifically meant to be in Ishgard for the lore they have. There is no valid reason to start in Eorzea. Also seeing as how the story CLEARY states Ishgard is too busy to truly forge the alliance with Eorzea. but oh yeah...that's right...you need to progress to find that out. Hm...interesting...

Sure, it sometimes sucks to progress in the story to get what you want, but such is life. You don't always get what you want. But hey, at least getting the job at that point is a nice reward. I'd rather have a reward over a hand out. People can accept it and move on or quit, it is what it is. And I read somewhere (how true this is, I don't know) that Yoshi stated 50-60 is about as long as 1-50. So to worry about hitting 51-53 during those quests is a waste of energy, put it somewhere else and wait to see what is released