Thread: 2.55 Main Scenario Requirement.

Originally Posted by Rendecrow

So many people are so quick to claim that it is not a balance and smooth leveling issue, but when I look at the numbers they look like this:

Levels 1 to 49: Approximately 1.4% story quests per level on average.

Level 50: Approximately 30% story quests.

Tell me again how this is not a balance issue? I like the story, but even I can see an issue with having the bulk of the story quests crammed into one level. You want people to do the story? Fine, but they need to spread it out more over a few more levels. Everything at 50 is a problem when the expansion comes out and the level cap is 60.

Your probably going to see the same story quest density post 50 anyway. 1 level will effectively count as 5 past 50 as far as story goes. They are basically talking about 50 to 60 taking roughly the same length of time that 1 to 50 took.

Lets not kid ourselves. The post 50 content will be gated by story progression in exactly the same way as the pre 50 content was. Even if players could go straight to Ishgard they will be able to do little beyond FATE grinding. Likely they wouldn't even have access to flying. This is how the entire game has been structured from level 1.

Add to that there is no simple way you can set things up so players can transition between 2.0's end story and 3.0's beginning without there being massive amounts that make no sense.

Your making this sound like its a far more torturous process than it actually is. I had a new player in my free company that cleared the entire patch story in two days and that was with dps queues and starting the relic quest at the same time. The only issue I can possibly see is one of gear and I suspect that can easily be solved through MS quest rewards giving upgrades or lowering the numbers on the patch dungeons so such a high ilvl isn't required.

Im confused why people are assuming you cant do ANY heavensward content without finishing 2.55. The way I understand it is you cant do the heavenwards main story without doing 2.55. Thats not including access to some new zones and tons of sidequests that are unrelated to main story. This is not new either, I've played several MMO expansions that let you access new areas through a small sidequest or an intro quest but obviously cannot progress in the main story if you havent reached a certain requirement. FFXI had done this with RoZ, CoP, and ToAU. I could go unlock blue mage, as a newer character without completing main story even though the quest is in an expansion area.

Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Square pretty much said you won't have access to Ishgard until you cleared all of 2.0. From a logical standpoint, it makes no sense for the player who hasn't progressed in 2.0's story to be allowed into a city or areas that is still closed off to them in their current story.

And ishgard is not the only zone to be added, and you dont know where the new job quests will be placed. There is precedent for this already. There will most likely be areas you can simply walk into without ANY requirement.

Im not implying it will be different but you guys dont know for sure either is the point. I agree you cant enter Ishgard right off, but nothing is saying the rest of the expansion is gated, Im guessing its some dungeons, MSQ, Ishgard. Just like some dungeons are gated behind 2.0 story and some are simply side quests.

Gating the entire expansion behind 2.55 is just bad business (people buying the game based on heavensward, then not being able to play it) and I dont believe SE will do it. New players will want to try out Au Ra and the jobs as well. Getting to 30 is much easier then 50 and all MSQ.

So if you can start the game as an Au Ra then its safe to assume not every bit of content is gated behind 2.55

Originally Posted by Belhi

Your probably going to see the same story quest density post 50 anyway. 1 level will effectively count as 5 past 50 as far as story goes. They are basically talking about 50 to 60 taking roughly the same length of time that 1 to 50 took.

Lets not kid ourselves. The post 50 content will be gated by story progression in exactly the same way as the pre 50 content was. Even if players could go straight to Ishgard they will be able to do little beyond FATE grinding. Likely they wouldn't even have access to flying. This is how the entire game has been structured from level 1.

Add to that there is no simple way you can set things up so players can transition between 2.0's end story and 3.0's beginning without there being massive amounts that make no sense.

Your making this sound like its a far more torturous process than it actually is. I had a new player in my free company that cleared the entire patch story in two days and that was with dps queues and starting the relic quest at the same time. The only issue I can possibly see is one of gear and I suspect that can easily be solved through MS quest rewards giving upgrades or lowering the numbers on the patch dungeons so such a high ilvl isn't required.

Don't even bother. Myself and several others have posted explaining these same points multiple time and Rendercrow just ignores them. He even tried to shut the thread down earlier because everyone disagreed with him. The only people he responds to are either those that agree in some way or those that he can insult. He isn't actually trying to hold a debate on the issue at all.

Originally Posted by Peachy

And ishgard is not the only zone to be added, and you dont know where the new job quests will be placed. There is precedent for this already. There will most likely be areas you can simply walk into without ANY requirement.

Im not implying it will be different but you guys dont know for sure either is the point. I agree you cant enter Ishgard right off, but nothing is saying the rest of the expansion is gated, Im guessing its some dungeons, MSQ, Ishgard. Just like some dungeons are gated behind 2.0 story and some are simply side quests.

Gating the entire expansion behind 2.55 is just bad business (people buying the game based on heavensward, then not being able to play it) and I dont believe SE will do it. New players will want to try out Au Ra and the jobs as well. Getting to 30 is much easier then 50 and all MSQ.

So if you can start the game as an Au Ra then its safe to assume not every bit of content is gated behind 2.55

Unfortunately Yoshi confirmed in a live letter that yes, all the new jobs are unlocked in the city of Ishgard itself. The Au'Ra will not require any content completion though; if you have the expansion registered you can create one regardless.

What we know of the situation is this: the city of Ishgard is gated behind story completion. It's been implied that all of the expansion's zones are gated behind Ishgard but you're right, it's entirely possible that some are accessible from existing areas, we don't actually have any confirmation on this one. The problem is though, even if a player can access these areas prior to completion of the 2.55 story quests they won't be able to do much there due to the dungeons and flying being gated behind the 3.0 main scenario quests. The onyl thing they'll be able to do is grind fates on whatever small sections of the map are accessible without a flying mount.

This is what people are trying to explain to the OP. The way content gating and character progression is designed in this game has everything tied into the main story. Allowing players to skip any previous main story quests would leave them without access to important gameplay features and content. Allowing them access to 3.0 areas without having the 3.0 main story quests available would leave them unable to progress in those areas. Even if the OP's suggestion were implemented in some fashion, new players would STILL have to complete all of the story quests anyway in order to unlock access to other things.

Originally Posted by Stjevne

The "story" in this game is pretty bad honestly. I understand a lot of you think everyone should play RPGs the way you want it to be played, but there are people out there paying subscription fees to help improve this game that you like who don't /want/ to listen to the story.

Of the ~30 people or so who I am well acquainted with in this game, 1 or 2 don't click through all of the flat and boring writing while doing the MSQ in this game.

Some of us just want to punch dragons, and this is the best game to do it in. Why does it bother you that we don't care about your story? We let you do you, so let us do us.

You're playing a story-centric MMO. If all you want to do is punch dragons then I'm sorry but you came to the wrong place. It doesn't bother me in the slightest that you don't enjoy the story, but it does bother me that you want to hack the story up to play the game your way rather than the way the game was designed.

Originally Posted by Rendecrow

There is a big difference between the "plot" and what is practical for the players. For instance if you really wanted to make everything realistic then every time you die you should reroll a new toon. Also we have teleportation everywhere but in the "plot" characters constantly talk about travel time? Makes no sense. Just some food for thought....

If we were doing that Au ra would be gated as well because of the events in the main story, they would either change some lines of dialog to make sense or just file it under those other things you said like teleporting, character age VS in game time that has passed, raising dead people.

But on topic I don't think it will be too much of an issue if the quest density for lvling is that much, we will obviously need more xp per lvl, and just add xp to those quests. You already have to do them in order, if they add progressively higher xp amounts to the 2.1-2.55 story it doesn't really matter what lvl the quest is listed at.

Originally Posted by Alberel

The problem is though, even if a player can access these areas prior to completion of the 2.55 story quests they won't be able to do much there due to the dungeons and flying being gated behind the 3.0 main scenario quests. The onyl thing they'll be able to do is grind fates on whatever small sections of the map are accessible without a flying mount.

This is what people are trying to explain to the OP. The way content gating and character progression is designed in this game has everything tied into the main story. Allowing players to skip any previous main story quests would leave them without access to important gameplay features and content. Allowing them access to 3.0 areas without having the 3.0 main story quests available would leave them unable to progress in those areas. Even if the OP's suggestion were implemented in some fashion, new players would STILL have to complete all of the story quests anyway in order to unlock access to other things.

Thats not entirely true though. I dont know why anyone would want to play a game like this and skip everything but its possible to make a new character and do none of the main story once outside of the starting instance. You can even choose to walk everywhere instead of unlocking teleport. Most sidequests are only gated by lvl so you can do them and fates to 50. You can even get to/from limsa without unlocking the airship by using a fc house aetheryte (Ive done this with alts).

I pretty much agree with you and think OP is over reacting and white knighting players hes never met but I dont think the entire expansion is gated, even if it makes no sense to struggle in new areas, some want to explore on day 1 and I think thats the general disappointment we are hearing. I for one will play ALL of it and love it lol.