Thread: Any idea what is in patch 2.57?

The biggest mystery of this thread is how a bunch of people who apparently turn their nose up at the Duty Finder have a problem with people using the Duty Finder. If you don't use it and "form a group by talking to people" on your server, then why the hell would you care whether "bad" players clear it or not?

Furthermore, storyline content should not be too difficult, because a lot of people who AREN'T going to raid or farm dungeons all day are playing for the story. There's plenty of room for hard content and easy content to coexist.

We all like to show off our big ol' e-peens and show how dominant we are over the internet, but not everyone playing FFXIV is playing it how you play it or for the same reasons you are. Don't force your methods on others, because you CLEARLY don't like theirs being forced on you. (Also, hint: Their method makes more money for SE.)

Originally Posted by Xbob42

We all like to show off our big ol' e-peens and show how dominant we are over the internet, but not everyone playing FFXIV is playing it how you play it or for the same reasons you are. Don't force your methods on others, because you CLEARLY don't like theirs being forced on you. (Also, hint: Their method makes more money for SE.)

No1 was rambling to make anything harder, most people just want to play the game the way the developer's intended. It's the opposite, poeple came on the forum the same day the fight was launched and demanded that it be nerfed because they couldn't one shot it. Casuals are forcing their playstyle on others, not the other way around.

If so many people want to play JUST for the story, then i would rather them just not put any battles in the story, make it one really long cutscene, that's it! Then leave all the battles to the people that actually WANT to play a video game.

Originally Posted by Balipu

Well you either level grind or get the bonus stuff.

Nope, you made a generality and got called on it happening to be false.

Originally Posted by Balipu

....And usually the end dungeon is all but impossible unless you did most of the bonus content to buff yourself up.

Level grinding to get ready for bosses is a RPG staple that has been around forever and is part of normal game progression. Bonus stuff has become standard as well, but completing bonus stuff is just that - bonus. You are supposed to do one(level up) and the other is completely optional.

Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

No1 was rambling to make anything harder, most people just want to play the game the way the developer's intended. It's the opposite, poeple came on the forum the same day the fight was launched and demanded that it be nerfed because they couldn't one shot it. Casuals are forcing their playstyle on others, not the other way around.

If so many people want to play JUST for the story, then i would rather them just not put any battles in the story, make it one really long cutscene, that's it! Then leave all the battles to the people that actually WANT to play a video game.

Lets not pretend that in this one side or other has the right of it. Both those who want harder and those who want easier have people who demand the game gets adjusted to fit their play style. Also lets be honest, just long cutscenes isn't a game. Its a movie. People want to play encounters, not just watch story. They want interaction.

SE has to aim for a middle ground in story content. Lets be clear here. Most people looking for harder stuff haven't been running Steps of Faith much anyway. This is a balance both sides need to accept some accommodation for. Those who want easy need to accept that they need to do a basic level of effort to past content and those who want harder need to accept that probably the vast bulk of income for SE comes from those easier players and thus they will prioritise creating content for those players if push comes to shove.

I think this can be adjusted somewhat if SE introduces concepts in battle in a clearer and more gradual way. The biggest problem I see with Steps of Faith is often people don't get or don't know what they are actually supposed to be doing. SE really doesn't spell it out well and their is little content earlier in the game that introduces things like environmental weapons, certainly during the story. The only occasions I can think of is Stone Vigil Hard Mode, which is non MS content, and Leviathan primal which is a one click button in the middle of the fighting area.

I think a few quests in the lead up to the encounter that had players using cannons and even utilising a Dragonslayer would have done wonders to aid players.

Originally Posted by Belhi

SE really doesn't spell it out well and their is little content earlier in the game that introduces things like environmental weapons, certainly during the story. The only occasions I can think of is Stone Vigil Hard Mode, which is non MS content, and Leviathan primal which is a one click button in the middle of the fighting area.

Stone Vigil (normal), first Castrum Meridianum, Copperbell (hard) and i think there are still some more.

Originally Posted by Felis

Stone Vigil (normal), first Castrum Meridianum, Copperbell (hard) and i think there are still some more.

When I first did SoF that's what came to mind. The non-traditional dungeon/trial format. Perhaps that throws people off. I was happy I did Castrum and SoF with my FC. Tried to help a friend with SoF yesterday and it was a chaotic nightmare. Even with roles assigned, people knowing and acknowledging said roles - it was terrible. I do agree with an earlier post that the only issue with keeping SoF non-nerfed is that it's a lockout to the expansion. I'm not saying it's a good OR bad idea, but I can for sure see where their reasons would be coming from. I don't care if they made that fight entry level dungeon easy, I would never want to run that besides the initial clear. I just didn't enjoy the fight as much as other dungeons.

I really hope for a poetic cap removal - or at the very least bump the cap up to 700 or so. We'll see!

Originally Posted by Whocareswhatmynameis

No1 was rambling to make anything harder, most people just want to play the game the way the developer's intended.

I don't understand why people seem to think the developer's intent is that players "Get good or go home" or "This content is set in stone so expect no data-driven changes" when they've been committed to letting things drop and fester for months, and then making adjustments that they see as necessary months later. This team has shown a commitment to analyzing player data and making changes based on that and not the ranting and ravings of forum goers. Have people forgotten how long and how many threads it took to actually get changes made to WARs or the Relic system? Complaint threads for those popped up overnight, but in each case, nothing happened until SE had data on their part to justify the change. Yeah, Player feedback accounts for something, but SE isn't being forced into make changes by casual players, and if SoF gets nerfed in this patch, it's because the clear rates did not meet SE's standards. The developer's intent from the beginning has been to make an accessible game that retains subscribers and generates money, and they've done a fine job walking the middle ground so far.

So if we really want to play the game the way developer's intended, we would enjoy the 2-6 months of content while it is at it's peak difficulty, and then move on to the next difficult feature while they make our previous stomping ground accessible to others because that's the model that the developers have established as their intent for content. They're going to make changes, as they always have, when they have the data on how it affects their player base.

It always struck me as unfortunate that the FFXIV community has such a hateful divide between the casual and hardcore playerbase(s). It probably doesn't help that hardcore players will forever be convinced that casual players (which are the majority of the playerbase) are out to "destroy" the game.

We just want to enjoy the game in our own way, and as far as I am concerned - I've never advocated any nerfs to any raids/dungeons. Most of us don't even care to post on forums and just play the game. However, it makes sense that as new content comes in - outdated content is made more accessible to those people who didn't have the opportunity. It's just sound business practice.

I've done all of the relic steps since the beginning, yet you don't see any relic owners getting up in arms when Yoshi-P announces nerfs in the relic steps. Is it so wrong to wish for a more egalitarian system of opportunities for people to experience end-game content?

Originally Posted by Darkshaunz

It always struck me as unfortunate that the FFXIV community has such a hateful divide between the casual and hardcore playerbase(s). It probably doesn't help that hardcore players will forever be convinced that casual players (which are the majority of the playerbase) are out to "destroy" the game.

It also doesn't help when casual players brand end game players as douche bags who think they are better than everyone, when 99% of the time that isn't the case. There is no hateful divide from what I have seen, only assumptions made by both playerbases.
The reason you see the end game players complaining about nerfs, is because there is very little difficult content in this game. So when SE takes away what little content we have, it gets a little annoying. Although to say that's destroying the game is an overstatement. This whole thing works both ways though.

We just want to enjoy the game in our own way, and as far as I am concerned - I've never advocated any nerfs to any raids/dungeons. Most of us don't even care to post on forums and just play the game. However, it makes sense that as new content comes in - outdated content is made more accessible to those people who didn't have the opportunity. It's just sound business practice.

I'm all for that, I'm sure I have said it before but I have no problems with echo, as it can be turned off. It's the actual nerfs like in SCOB T6/T7 that are just going too far in my opinion. The addition of echo + overgearing is more than enough to nerf raid content. There is zero point in my opinion in reducing mechanics even further because if they do, what is the point in running those dungeons? It's not for the gear if it is now outdated, and it's not for the challenge as that has been removed. So other than just to 'see it' I guess, which even then all you are experiencing is a watered down shell of the original if they nerf the mechanics. I do believe they way they locked the story out behind the coils was a bad move though, hopefully alexander fixes that.

I've done all of the relic steps since the beginning, yet you don't see any relic owners getting up in arms when Yoshi-P announces nerfs in the relic steps. Is it so wrong to wish for a more egalitarian system of opportunities for people to experience end-game content?

No reason to complain about it really. It isn't challenging content it is simply grindy content and the grind is there because it is easy, making it harder (longer is a better word) to get an end game worthwhile weapon. However as the end game shifts higher and higher it only makes sense to lesson the grind, no point making someone grind the same amount for a weapon that is absolute trash, decreasing difficulty is one thing, decreasing length and repetitiveness is another.