DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[kpxmanifesto]

No problems with 1v1...just not OPEN 1v1.
1v1 Wolves Den: Good idea
1v1 /duel in the open world: Bad idea

That reason is strange to me. Why would dueling that's limited to the zones outside of a major city be a bother to you?

[Xieveral]

I understand it won't be balanced it does have to be its just for fun

WoW's duel system wasn't balanced, a high level could duel a low-level. I was a priest, squishiest of the squishies but I loved unfair duels. It was like a game of tag, to see how long could I evade and keep myself alive before they got their KO on me.

[kyuven]

That reason is strange to me. Why would dueling that's limited to the zones outside of a major city be a bother to you?

In that case it'd be impractical, if you have to go out of your way just for a duel.
In addition, what consitutes "outside a city"? Is it outside a sanctuary? If so, that would make dueling more dangerous than it should be. Would it be like triple triad?
In that case, why not just make it exclusive to the Wolves' Den? That's the PVP area, those are the PVP instances. Use them. Don't clutter up the rest of the world with something that would be better off left there.

[kpxmanifesto]

In that case it'd be impractical, if you have to go out of your way just for a duel.
In addition, what consitutes "outside a city"? Is it outside a sanctuary? If so, that would make dueling more dangerous than it should be. Would it be like triple triad?
In that case, why not just make it exclusive to the Wolves' Den? That's the PVP area, those are the PVP instances. Use them. Don't clutter up the rest of the world with something that would be better off left there.

1. Why is it impractical?
2. Why would dueling outside a city be more dangerous? Dangerous to who?
3. What clutter are you talking about? Character collision in this game doesn't exist.

A lot of these "reasons" sound more like personal preferences rather than real reasons to me.

[Nalien]

The PVP skills are different enough that you need to relearn your class.This takes time and effort that many players don't want to go through because they just spent 50 levels doing that. Moreover they're not given any situation where they can just practice.

The PvP skills do not result in you having to relearn your Job... They all have very clear uses, none of them are remotely complex. Any relearning is due to PvP being drastically different, must more fast paced and not 100% scripted. That is what people find hard to learn, not that the skills are hard to grasp. If anyone is looking at Attunement and going "How do I use this?", quit right now.

Also, no where to practice? You can use PvP skills in Wolves Den Pier on the dummies, but ignore that, because testing a rotation in PvP is fairly redundant in the sense people would practice current rotations (can practice a burst but I doubt newer players would know to do that). If only people were asking for some form of sparring system for PvP where they can get real practice at PvP, without the long queue times, something they can do in a couple of minutes...

This isn't a PVP game, therefore PVP queues will always be long.

Odd, I remember a time when I could have back to back Frontlines matches, churning out dozens of i70 desynths from the Wolf Marks a day. It's almost as if queues used to be fine... It's almost as if PvP used to be quite popular...

Seriously, just stop. You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Have you even done any PvP in this game? I know it might be hard for you to believe, but there was a time when some of us could get into matches very frequently. Many of us would like to again, but we don't because waiting for over 30 minutes isn't appealing. The issue, as I have repeatably said, is that PvP queues suffer from a negative feedback loop; People drop out of queues, queues become worse, people can't be asked to wait that long, more people drop out of queues. Rinse and repeat. That is the biggest issue PvP suffers from in this game. New maps and modes become popular at launch, but they still end up suffering from this exact issue. SE can either address this issue, or continue pumping out more modes that will be popular for a while and again need replacing. One of those options is much more resource intensive than the other, guess which. Add to that the fact that more modes dilutes the number of players in the queues, making queues even worse.

PvP is currently unpopular due to the queues. The queues are a result of negative feedback. That is the state of affairs, please stop spouting nonsense like "queues will always be long" when anyone who regularly used to PvP knows for a fact that that is simply not the case. People stopped queuing because they had other things to do. When we feel like coming back the queues are longer due to that drop off. Because the queues are longer people stop queuing, making matters worse. That is a fact. It is not a fact that there is nothing SE can do about that. They can, they're just opting to turn PvP into a themepark instead by adding new modes every other update instead. They actually have some of what I've suggested planned, it's just constantly being pushed back in favour of new Frontlines modes. They keep making the same mistake instead of fixing this issue.

[kyuven]

1. Why is it impractical?
2. Why would dueling outside a city be more dangerous? Dangerous to who?
3. What clutter are you talking about? Character collision in this game doesn't exist.

A lot of these "reasons" sound more like personal preferences rather than real reasons to me.

1+2: Takes time to get to and you have to go out of your way. There's no one there to watch unless you invite them so why bother? It's more dangerous because outside of cities/sanctuaries tend to be mobs. When a zone/instance for this sort of thing already exists that you can queue/warp to, why bother with anything else?
3. Players generate lag just by existing. Players that perform actions generate more lag. Imagine if 10 people in Mor Dhona decided to duel one another at the same time. Not only are they making NOISE, but they're also lagging other players when they do so. Imagine an S rank hunt in all the popular areas all the time.

The PvP skills do not result in you having to relearn your Job... They all have very clear uses, none of them are remotely complex. Any relearning is due to PvP being drastically different, must more fast paced and not 100% scripted. That is what people find hard to learn, not that the skills are hard to grasp. If anyone is looking at Attunement and going "How do I use this?", quit right now.

They are new skills, not available anywhere else. You will be expected to use them in PVP to succeed. Therefore, you have to relearn how to play your class because your class has new abilities it did not under normal circumstances. They also have to be FIT onto your action bar.
And practicing on a dummy? That tells you nothing about how to actually use a skill. Sure, it can tell you durations and stacking rules, but it teaches you nothing.
Again, once again, and again and again i seem to be reiterating myself: 1v1 Wolves Den would be FINE for this. I have no problem with 1v1 Wolves Den.
OPEN PvP, outside Wolves Den? No.

Seriously, just stop. You don't seem to know what you're talking about. Have you even done any PvP in this game?

Yes, I have. The queues got boring, so I stopped. Even the roulette takes forever, which makes no sense.
Frontlines used to be the "new shiny," so the queues were fast. It stopped being the new shiny, so it stopped being popular. Just like a lot of dungeons have. Just like Wolves Den. Just like pre-50 dungeons. Just like FATE parties in zones other than Coerthas.

1. A good portion of this game is spent running around and you have an issue with walking just outside of town?
2. "There's no one there to watch..." I need to see a source on that please. Dueling doesn't even exist in this game yet and yet you are able to make such a prediction that no one will be outside to watch?
3. Are we talking about the level 1-3 mobs outside of major cities?
4. "Imagine if 10 people in Mor Dhona decided to duel one another at the same time." - I said outside of sanctuaries.
5. Noise is a bother to you in this game? Who's forcing you to stand in a dueling area with your volume turned to the max?

Again DUELING AREA.
One exists. Why not use that instead of having it anywhere else? Why spend time devising a system of such limited use when they can just apply it to something that already exists.
Why bother going through all the testing and trouble of allowing duels in areas players aren't actually hanging out when you could add them to a zone/instance that already exists?

5. No one. But you want open PVP. Something like that can and will be used to harass people. As I'm typing this while waiting on a queue, someone ran by and used Ring of Thorns. It's irritating. Why give them the option when you can just make use of an area that already exists? Why allow duels in the middle of nowhere for no reason when you can make use of an area that already exists?

[kpxmanifesto]

stuff

1. A good portion of this game is spent running around and you have an issue with walking just outside of town?
2. "There's no one there to watch..." I need to see a source on that please. Dueling doesn't even exist in this game yet and yet you are able to make such a prediction that no one will be outside to watch?
3. Are we talking about the level 1-3 mobs outside of major cities?
4. "Imagine if 10 people in Mor Dhona decided to duel one another at the same time." - I said outside of sanctuaries.
5. Noise is a bother to you in this game? Who's forcing you to stand in a dueling area with your volume turned to the max?

[Nalien]

It is kind of sad that people are against open world content, just because it's PvP related...

The open world in this game, for the most part, is dead. Some of the absurd reasoning against this are laughable at best... I mean really... PvPers dueling where PvEers can also PvE will result in too much noise pollution and lag! Imagine S Ranks everywhere all the time! But PvP is totally unpopular you guys!

Yes, I have. The queues got boring, so I stopped. Even the roulette takes forever, which makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense, you even just displayed why.

"The queues got boring, so I stopped."

That. Is. The. Issue. Queues take a long time because people don't queue because queues take a long time. Negative feedback. If, as I've suggested, there was a schedule to things, there would be periods in the day where interest peaks and queue times drop as a result. Those of us who want to PvP queue up then and get in quicker. Issues like the Grand Company restriction might still cause long queue times, of course, but the fact that we actually can get into PvP with a lot of waiting is evidence enough that there are enough people around interested...

[mrmelgibson]

@kyuven

I'm more of a pver then pvper. I agree about no duels in cities/sanctuary. But, the reasons you gave for not allowing duels outside of cities/towns are just ludicrous. It's almost like you were humiliated in a duel in another mmo. Your phobia of it happening again is turning into vitriol. At this point you won't even listen to reason.

[Nalien]

Give me a GOOD, a REAL GOOD reason why PVP should be allowed outside Wolves Den. I have yet to see one other than "flavor."
Why should SE expend the effort to allow duels all over the world when they can just add it to Wolves Den?

Player convenience.

I honestly laughed out loud when you suggested the opposite. It would be impractical for us to find a designated location? How is that not true if we only have the one location? If there are more locations, I am more likely to be able to just walk to one, rather than teleporting to Wolves Den Pier or queue up and wait an age for the fight to start. Arena diversity as well. Makes things somewhat more interesting than fighting in the exact same space every single time. Why should we have to travel to Wolves Den Pier, or form a party and queue up, when we could just duel where we are, having to take a few steps outside of town at most?

Let me ask you another question though; If PvP is oh so unpopular like you insist, why are you against a handful of us dueling where ever? There aren't enough of us to create lag, certainly not if we're spread out. Noise pollution would be no different than someone doing a Levequest or Treasure Map... What's your issue? You honestly just seem to have some irrational fear of duels going on.

Flavour actually is a fairly big deal as well, I think. This games open world seems so dead most of the time, everything is locked away in an instance. Seeing more people actually making use of the zones would be nice. I would much rather see people openly PvPing and discussing PvP, than locking it away in an instance. I would much rather allow people to watch me dueling so that others might learn something by observing. I would much rather be able to watch other dueling so that I might learn something as well.