DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Nalien]

I always laugh when people imply PvP isn't popular in Final Fantasy. Sure the series is historically an RPG (rather than an RTS which is vaguely PvP), but this game is also an MMO, and any MMO is going to have a demand for PvP.

Wolves Den and Frontlines were plenty popular at their launches, and matches are still possible if you can stomach the wait. It isn't dead content, just frustrating to get into due to the queues. PvP in ARR is popular enough for the developers to even waste time on it, otherwise we wouldn't have Slaughter (and oh how I wish we didn't, but that's a rant for later) nor the new rules and zone in Heavensward, though that really isn't what they should be doing for PvP at the moment...

The issue with PvP in ARR is one of creating a steady playerbase. The current situation is one where people stop queuing after a while, either to take a break from it or to do other things, and that creates a negative feedback loop on the queues. Less people queue, queues take longer, people see long queues and don't queue, thus queue times get longer. That's the biggest issue with PvP in this game, for some reason SE insists on adding more modes which just splits up the PvP community, making the problem worse. It's mind boggling, made all the more frustrating by their out right refusal to even communicate with the PvP community (at all? I don't recall them ever gracing the concerns of the PvP section with a response).

Kind of hilarious considering they got PvP so right in the Gold Saucer. Say what you will about the Triple Triad Tournaments, at least it gets people playing the game on a regular basis, and Chocobo Racing completely skips the issue by having NPCs fill the ranks. I'm sure nobody wants to PvP to play with NPCs (I certainly don't, the PvE at mid is annoying enough), but it could have a dramatic impact on the queue timers for Wolves Den; You queue, get in instantly with NPC allies enemies and the odd PC, which sucks for PvP but at least it is easy farming, thus more people queue for Wolves Den and as such you end up playing against more PCs than NPCs. Both Wolves Den and Frontlines would also benefit dramatically from server side scheduling, you'd know that the people who are interested would be queuing at a certain time and that would improve queue times. Rather than the ridiculously drawn out Triple Triad Tournament timetable we got (really? A whole week for one Tournament and then a week of nothing? Sigh), PvP would probably benefit more from "You get extra rewards for an hour at this time, and this time, etc. etc.". Split the day into 8 three hour slots, with one of those hours being better rewards and the other two being cooldown? Speaking of rewards, outside Glamour they really could do with something worthwhile, you know, for those of you who can't buy i70 gear and desynth it for a tidy sum. Always figured it would be nice if that Materia Merchant at the pier would sell all the combat materia, fairly ridiculous prices for the IVs to limit the impact on the economy of course but how effective would that be? Spiritbond for materia or PvP? I know what I'd pick, every. single. time.

Are they doing any of that though? Nope. Instead we're getting a new map that's probably as bad as Slaughter... Yay... I wouldn't even call any of that particularly difficult to produce, given much of the framework is already in place. Duels certainly aren't something that should be difficult to implement, and duels would pretty much completely avoid any queue issues so that would be able to satisfy PvPers for a good while, hopefully while someone is slapping people over the head going "Stop work on this new Frontlines mode and do all this instead". Mark my words, that new map is just going to be an exact repeat of Slaughter unless SE actually addresses the real issue with PvP. I wouldn't even mind Slaughter and the new map if we had duels, because I could duel while I wait for them to fix the twisted wreckage that is Wolves Den and Frontlines.

Seriously SE, give us duels at the very least. Same rules as Triple Triad, limit where we can, or just shove a 1v1 mode in Wolves Den that two people can party up and queue for. It would be a very simple addition that would keep people satisfied with PvP while you keep delaying fixing the actual issues to add more Frontlines maps...

[kyuven]

A bold statement there friend, I did not realize you were our spokesman. Do not assume you know that; you dislike that I called those people children, well that is what they are, children act selfish and immature only caring about their own self, that is what a child does, and that is what many people crying about this are doing. So yes, children. Don't like that, then don't act like it. P.S. Don't speak for the majority of people, because you are NOT, and that is extremely insulting.

Wanna know the truth?
*I* wouldn't mind PVP duels. It might even be fun. I used to do it from time to time in older games and games that allow it I always give it a shot and rarely turn one down.
However, what *I* want isn't the issue here. What the COMMUNITY wants and what the DEVS want is what's important.
This game did not have PVP from the start. It is not a PVP-centric game. PVP is completely an afterthought. The devs clearly don't care about it, and you see more posts complaining about EYE COLOR than you do about the lack of PVP on this game's forums.
Therefore, it stands to reason that PVP isn't a big priority among players either.
Now, let me guide you to my thought processes on why OPEN WORLD PVP duels would be a bad idea.
What is the most annoying thing Dragoons do in the open world?
Ring of Thorns. It's loud and obnoxious.
What is the most annoying thing players do?
Emote spam.
What do duels involve?
Way more than ring of thorns. Things that are noisy and flashy.
What does open world PVP dueling allow? Dueling in towns.
What you are basically asking for is another tool to allow people to be annoyed, while offering no benefit beyond QoL and ePeen measuring contests.
There IS a solution, however, using instancing. But this would involve developer and server resources which are already limited, and with the classes unbalanced the resources simply would not be worth the time at this point.
part of being an adult is knowing you can't have everything you want.

[Kikoten]

They could center 1 on 1 duels in the Ul'dah colosseum and make them spectatable events. Instead of health gauges, there'd be bars you slowly fill up called "Favor" or "Favoritism."

Power-ups could spawn around the colosseum to make the fight a little bit spicier.

[Nalien]

This game did not have PVP from the start. It is not a PVP-centric game. PVP is completely an afterthought.

You know PvP was planned from the beginning, right? We knew Frontlines was coming before this game even had an alpha version... Is the game PvP-centric? No, sure, it's a story driven MMO, of course it isn't. Is PvP an afterthought though? IDK, interviews about what 3.0 was going to be (before we knew) and mention of Frontlines-style content back when I was fighting Nael Desu Darnus in 1.0 kind of give me the impression that they were thinking about PvP before they even decided on the theme/locations for 3.0.

The devs clearly don't care about it, and you see more posts complaining about EYE COLOR than you do about the lack of PVP on this game's forums.

No, you see more posts complaining about eye colour in the General Discussion section (which on a good day is a cesspool of inane threads anyway). You don't see many threads here about PvP because the PvP subsection is a thing. A thing the community reps seem to out right ignore, sure, but that is where the majority the PvP-centric comments go.

As for the devs not caring about it... Is that why Heavensward is going to have a new gameplay mode for Frontlines complete with new map? Is that why they (somewhat) recently added Slaughter to Frontlines? They care about providing PvP content, that much is obvious. It's also obvious that they're ignoring the real problems with PvP in favour of just pushing out more maps, much to my dismay.

There IS a solution, however, using instancing. But this would involve developer and server resources which are already limited, and with the classes unbalanced the resources simply would not be worth the time at this point.
part of being an adult is knowing you can't have everything you want.

The PvP teams resources (yes, they have a whole team dedicated to PvP, again, clearly they care about PvP) may be limited to make a simple adjustment to Wolves Den to allow 1v1 (lol?), but that is because they are wasting their resources on things like Slaughter and whatever horror 3.0 holds in store. This isn't like the plethora of Housing issues we have where they can just go "We'll the team was working on Gold Saucer", it's not a lack of resources, it's the misuse of them which is damaging PvP. Wolves Den was introduced very early on in this games life, and since then it has constantly been ignored, rather than fixed. Not really surprised Frontlines ended up suffering similar issues.

Instead of fixing those issues, they opt to make matters worse by further splitting the community with more game modes. I know they have fixes planned and glorious things like PvP Tournaments in store, having followed most of their interviews over the years, but it is always "after this Frontlines content". It's infuriating at this point...

[Yumi_umi]

Sure y not lol
Ppl can already request card duels in TT which is like a 1v1 in designated zones.

[ExiaQuanta]

I could see it now. Person 1 is mid teleport. person 2 cancels person 1's teleport by issuing a duel request. person 1 declines and proceeds to teleport again. person 2 again issues another request canceling the teleport. person 1 runs away from person 2 while person 2 is calling person 1 a noob in shout chat at the same time chasing person 1 canceling all teleports. person 1 comes to forums complaining about said stuff. forum bashes person 1 for not reading that there is auto-decline or for not going into afk mode or busy mode.

Nothing gets solved.


eh im bored.

[AzraelX]

I could see it now. Person 1 is mid teleport. person 2 cancels person 1's teleport by issuing a duel request. person 1 declines and proceeds to teleport again. person 2 again issues another request canceling the teleport. person 1 runs away from person 2 while person 2 is calling person 1 a noob in shout chat at the same time chasing person 1 canceling all teleports. person 1 comes to forums complaining about said stuff. forum bashes person 1 for not reading that there is auto-decline or for not going into afk mode or busy mode.

Nothing gets solved.




eh im bored.

The option to IGNORE all duel invites would be present

[Crystel_Leah]

This type of system could be great in all honesty. People have been asking for a dueling system (Not open world PvP) and myself as an RP'er would love to see this implemented.

Just don't allow duels in Cities and towns and only allow them in open spaces in the world. Also make it so a few meters from the city is a no Dueling zone, that way people aren't zoning out of a city into the middle of a duel. There could also be certain areas in cities set aside for duels like the Ul'dah coliseum could open up as a duel only area inside the city which can be reserved for private duels. Say, make it an instanced area where you can have a 1 on 1 up to an 8 on 8.

Just make it to where we can automatically decline duels if we don't feel up to it and all will be well.

I don't like cat people. I think they're an eyesore.

[kyuven]

snip

I'm sure they were planning PVP, but let me tell you something...if it's not in the game at launch then it is not a high priority for the dev team. Housing wasn't there either, and look at the complaints there.
Frontlines isn't "traditional PVP" and is still rather unpopular compared to many other aspects of the game. It's point capture, and you're given so many tools that are different from normal gameplay it's almost like driving a tank or car when you normally walk. I really don't understand what they mean by "traditional PVP" but let's take a look at that shall we?
Frontlines uses a set of skills you don't have access to under normal circumstances. PVP is therefore divided from PVE by more than just instances. To make duels, they would have to have the ability to summon up those skills in the open world, OR forego them entirely. This requires time and effort, and testing. What happens if a player uses Repelling Shot in Limsa Lominsa? What happens if they use that skill on top of the building with the tome merchants in mor dhona?
We THINK we know, but if you're going to allow PVP, you have to make DAMN sure you know. And then you have to test its interactions with other skills.
What happens when players are defeated? what happens when mobs interfere with a fight? What happens with party buffs? These are all things that, again, OPEN PVP has to consider.
The game was not DESIGNED with this in mind. There are areas within the game that were not DESIGNED for combat. This is why there are certain areas where combat just doesn't happen, and when it does, they make use of instancing.
Which is probably what PVP tournaments would entail.

Frontlines is popular because you can succeed without actually being good at PVP, which makes it attractive for people just looking for fun. If it's more popular, they develop for it. Plain and simple. And the queues are STILL an hour long. Why devote resources to something that is just going to be complained about and no one will actually do?
1v1 PVP is kinda like that. The game is NOT balanced for 1v1 pvp. And it probably never will be.

And complaining about PVP on the PVP forum? Sure yeah that happens. Of course it happens. But you can generally tell the popularity of a problem by how much it shows up OUTSIDE its intended forum. It's a litmus test. PVP may have problems not mentioned on GE, but the volume of its presence of GE compared to, say, the MSQs, steps of faith, or Atma droprates should be indicative of its relative popularity.

The option to IGNORE all duel invites would be present

Once again you need to address this point:
How do you ignore people around you dueling?

[AzraelX]

Once again you need to address this point:
How do you ignore people around you dueling?[/QUOTE]


When you duel the two fighters are only able to target each other within the dueling space- in dCUO if player leaves the dueling space ..the duel ends and the other person wins. Players can watch but won't get hit in the cross fire. What they could do is only able duel in open zones where we combat npc not like uldah central- u know the places we can cant use a mount.

would it be cool to even have 2v2 - player+ chocobo battles.

I want final fantasy to be the best b/c i think its the best..the music alone is amazing!