DEV REQUEST:DUEL/SPAR system

[Hollowed]

What in the world is with all these children? lol, I mean holy sh#t what is the matter with all you naysayers. The option to dual would be fun for some and not others, key word here is OPTION. If you think dueling is stupid and a waste of your time, that's awesome, don't do it then, I surely wouldn't. But if you do like this sort of thing then what is wrong with that? Hey I wanna dual my friend on PLD v WAR all the time to see which would win, but we cant because Den is dead, FL sucks, and there is no dueling in the game. Seriously why do you CARE if people can dual or not, you want SE to NOT add it, why? It would do nothing to you at all, not even in the slightest, and it would be no more annoying in public areas than those ANNOYING DRGs who spam their stupid AoE until they run out of TP inside a city. "I don't like this idea so I think YOU shouldn't have it!" Stop being children, there is nothing wrong with having "options"

[Wobi]

What in the world is with all these children?

So a dissenting opinion automatically makes people angry children? It is a 100% fact that the majority of the playerbase is not a fan of PvP and that the classes are in no way balanced for this and if you think people would not complain about class imbalance you being are naive. They have only so many developers and for them to spend time adding something to please a very small percentage of the playerbase while at the same time ignoring the wishes of the majority would be silly for them to do.

[Hollowed]

It is a 100% fact that the majority of the playerbase is not a fan of PvP

A bold statement there friend, I did not realize you were our spokesman. Do not assume you know that; you dislike that I called those people children, well that is what they are, children act selfish and immature only caring about their own self, that is what a child does, and that is what many people crying about this are doing. So yes, children. Don't like that, then don't act like it. P.S. Don't speak for the majority of people, because you are NOT, and that is extremely insulting.

[kyuven]

A bold statement there friend, I did not realize you were our spokesman. Do not assume you know that; you dislike that I called those people children, well that is what they are, children act selfish and immature only caring about their own self, that is what a child does, and that is what many people crying about this are doing. So yes, children. Don't like that, then don't act like it. P.S. Don't speak for the majority of people, because you are NOT, and that is extremely insulting.

Wanna know the truth?
*I* wouldn't mind PVP duels. It might even be fun. I used to do it from time to time in older games and games that allow it I always give it a shot and rarely turn one down.
However, what *I* want isn't the issue here. What the COMMUNITY wants and what the DEVS want is what's important.
This game did not have PVP from the start. It is not a PVP-centric game. PVP is completely an afterthought. The devs clearly don't care about it, and you see more posts complaining about EYE COLOR than you do about the lack of PVP on this game's forums.
Therefore, it stands to reason that PVP isn't a big priority among players either.
Now, let me guide you to my thought processes on why OPEN WORLD PVP duels would be a bad idea.
What is the most annoying thing Dragoons do in the open world?
Ring of Thorns. It's loud and obnoxious.
What is the most annoying thing players do?
Emote spam.
What do duels involve?
Way more than ring of thorns. Things that are noisy and flashy.
What does open world PVP dueling allow? Dueling in towns.
What you are basically asking for is another tool to allow people to be annoyed, while offering no benefit beyond QoL and ePeen measuring contests.
There IS a solution, however, using instancing. But this would involve developer and server resources which are already limited, and with the classes unbalanced the resources simply would not be worth the time at this point.
part of being an adult is knowing you can't have everything you want.

[Nalien]

This game did not have PVP from the start. It is not a PVP-centric game. PVP is completely an afterthought.

You know PvP was planned from the beginning, right? We knew Frontlines was coming before this game even had an alpha version... Is the game PvP-centric? No, sure, it's a story driven MMO, of course it isn't. Is PvP an afterthought though? IDK, interviews about what 3.0 was going to be (before we knew) and mention of Frontlines-style content back when I was fighting Nael Desu Darnus in 1.0 kind of give me the impression that they were thinking about PvP before they even decided on the theme/locations for 3.0.

The devs clearly don't care about it, and you see more posts complaining about EYE COLOR than you do about the lack of PVP on this game's forums.

No, you see more posts complaining about eye colour in the General Discussion section (which on a good day is a cesspool of inane threads anyway). You don't see many threads here about PvP because the PvP subsection is a thing. A thing the community reps seem to out right ignore, sure, but that is where the majority the PvP-centric comments go.

As for the devs not caring about it... Is that why Heavensward is going to have a new gameplay mode for Frontlines complete with new map? Is that why they (somewhat) recently added Slaughter to Frontlines? They care about providing PvP content, that much is obvious. It's also obvious that they're ignoring the real problems with PvP in favour of just pushing out more maps, much to my dismay.

There IS a solution, however, using instancing. But this would involve developer and server resources which are already limited, and with the classes unbalanced the resources simply would not be worth the time at this point.
part of being an adult is knowing you can't have everything you want.

The PvP teams resources (yes, they have a whole team dedicated to PvP, again, clearly they care about PvP) may be limited to make a simple adjustment to Wolves Den to allow 1v1 (lol?), but that is because they are wasting their resources on things like Slaughter and whatever horror 3.0 holds in store. This isn't like the plethora of Housing issues we have where they can just go "We'll the team was working on Gold Saucer", it's not a lack of resources, it's the misuse of them which is damaging PvP. Wolves Den was introduced very early on in this games life, and since then it has constantly been ignored, rather than fixed. Not really surprised Frontlines ended up suffering similar issues.

Instead of fixing those issues, they opt to make matters worse by further splitting the community with more game modes. I know they have fixes planned and glorious things like PvP Tournaments in store, having followed most of their interviews over the years, but it is always "after this Frontlines content". It's infuriating at this point...

[kyuven]

snip

I'm sure they were planning PVP, but let me tell you something...if it's not in the game at launch then it is not a high priority for the dev team. Housing wasn't there either, and look at the complaints there.
Frontlines isn't "traditional PVP" and is still rather unpopular compared to many other aspects of the game. It's point capture, and you're given so many tools that are different from normal gameplay it's almost like driving a tank or car when you normally walk. I really don't understand what they mean by "traditional PVP" but let's take a look at that shall we?
Frontlines uses a set of skills you don't have access to under normal circumstances. PVP is therefore divided from PVE by more than just instances. To make duels, they would have to have the ability to summon up those skills in the open world, OR forego them entirely. This requires time and effort, and testing. What happens if a player uses Repelling Shot in Limsa Lominsa? What happens if they use that skill on top of the building with the tome merchants in mor dhona?
We THINK we know, but if you're going to allow PVP, you have to make DAMN sure you know. And then you have to test its interactions with other skills.
What happens when players are defeated? what happens when mobs interfere with a fight? What happens with party buffs? These are all things that, again, OPEN PVP has to consider.
The game was not DESIGNED with this in mind. There are areas within the game that were not DESIGNED for combat. This is why there are certain areas where combat just doesn't happen, and when it does, they make use of instancing.
Which is probably what PVP tournaments would entail.

Frontlines is popular because you can succeed without actually being good at PVP, which makes it attractive for people just looking for fun. If it's more popular, they develop for it. Plain and simple. And the queues are STILL an hour long. Why devote resources to something that is just going to be complained about and no one will actually do?
1v1 PVP is kinda like that. The game is NOT balanced for 1v1 pvp. And it probably never will be.

And complaining about PVP on the PVP forum? Sure yeah that happens. Of course it happens. But you can generally tell the popularity of a problem by how much it shows up OUTSIDE its intended forum. It's a litmus test. PVP may have problems not mentioned on GE, but the volume of its presence of GE compared to, say, the MSQs, steps of faith, or Atma droprates should be indicative of its relative popularity.

The option to IGNORE all duel invites would be present

Once again you need to address this point:
How do you ignore people around you dueling?

[AzraelX]

Once again you need to address this point:
How do you ignore people around you dueling?[/QUOTE]


When you duel the two fighters are only able to target each other within the dueling space- in dCUO if player leaves the dueling space ..the duel ends and the other person wins. Players can watch but won't get hit in the cross fire. What they could do is only able duel in open zones where we combat npc not like uldah central- u know the places we can cant use a mount.

would it be cool to even have 2v2 - player+ chocobo battles.

I want final fantasy to be the best b/c i think its the best..the music alone is amazing!

[Nalien]

I'm sure they were planning PVP, but let me tell you something...if it's not in the game at launch then it is not a high priority for the dev team. Housing wasn't there either, and look at the complaints there.

Complaints which are unjustified? I'd say they're pretty justified regardless of how low they might be on the developers priority list, although I find your notion of "Not in launch = not a priority" to be utterly absurd. For a single player game, sure. For a MMO which is going to receive updates for years to come? No. Not even close. Content that wasn't in at launch wasn't a priority for launch. Wolves Den was a priority for 2.1, Frontlines was a priority for 2.3. Slaughter was a priority for whatever update that was, and whatever the new mode is called is a priority for 3.0. The fact that PvP, like Housing, has its own team to work on it alongside other content means it is a continuing priority.

It's point capture, and you're given so many tools that are different from normal gameplay it's almost like driving a tank or car when you normally walk. I really don't understand what they mean by "traditional PVP" but let's take a look at that shall we?

Frontlines isn't the only PvP in this game, you know... I really do dread to think how the common player is going to react to 3.0 if the handful of PvP skills confuse them, none of the PvP ones are even used in combos and their effects are very clear (this removes debuffs, this heals you, this is defensive) but that is an entirely different debate... Still, if the new PvP skills are like driving a tank to some players... That is a new low for this games playerbase...

To make duels, they would have to have the ability to summon up those skills in the open world, OR forego them entirely. This requires time and effort, and testing. What happens if a player uses Repelling Shot in Limsa Lominsa? What happens if they use that skill on top of the building with the tome merchants in mor dhona?

Or they could just limit where we can Duel, like has been suggested numerous times, along side just throwing it in the Wolves Den instance; Making a 1v1 mode for that wouldn't be a massive undertaking in the slightest. Can already use the PvP skills at Wolves Den Pier anyway, why not just add a bit more to that map (again, they're making an entire new map for Frontlines so it's not like they couldn't have) and make that the designated Duel area? A Duel area doesn't even need to be significantly complex, it would be a very easy area to design compared to what we've seen of the new Frontlines map (which looks great even if I have my doubts about the mode itself).

If it's more popular, they develop for it. Plain and simple. And the queues are STILL an hour long. Why devote resources to something that is just going to be complained about and no one will actually do?
1v1 PVP is kinda like that. The game is NOT balanced for 1v1 pvp. And it probably never will be.

The issue isn't about popularity. It's about access. Go back a few posts and read my ridiculous rant, the issue with PvP is that people cannot get into it due to the queues, which in turn makes the queues worse, which in turn is not helped by splitting players across multiple different queues (Wolves Den, Secure, Slaughter, etc.). By not addressing this simple issue they are effectively damning every piece of PvP content they release. Wolves Den was popular, then that little negative feedback loop kicked in and it became very time consuming just to get in. The exact same thing happened to Secure, and Slaughter. There are other issues, sure, but this is the main one.

[KokonoeAiyoko]

ADVENTURER SPAR (1 on 1 battles for fun)
Slight Story Spoilers

Lore wise, a duel/spar occurs with Hoary Boulder and his partner against the Warrior of Light, so it fits perfectly within the lore of the world.

Description:
Spar with your fellow adventurers in a one-on-one match to test your merit and for amusement!

Rules and Regulations:
1. You cannot initiate a Spar during the following conditions:

-You are currently in a Sanctuary.
-You are currently in a Spar.
-You are currently Level-synced, in Dungeon or Treasure Map. (you may duel during FATEs that aren't Level-synced.)
-You are currently Gathering or Crafting.
-The other adventurer has Spar Request disabled.
-Either adventurer is currently Teleporting.

2. You may request a fellow Adventurer to a duel, and after they accept, the match will begin in 5 seconds.
3. After the fight begins, you will be in a one-on-one battle against the other adventurer with the goal to lower their hit points to 0.
4. The battle is not ranked by any scores, and is merely for entertainment.
5. When the match is over, you will receive a "raise" in which you can choose to accept or decline.
6. If someone has Spar Request disabled, you cannot Spar with them.
7. If someone proceeds to a different map, the Spar request or current Spar is cancelled instantly.

[Leogon255]

Duels would be a fun little thing to add. I know two people in my FC are always going on about Paladin versus Warrior and can't really get a fair match going in FL to determine a winner. We have this perfectly good Gold Saucer sadly missing the original's main attraction: Battle Square. If duels were added I could easily see it being something done in a possible Battle Square addition to GS.