Shadow Flare needs a new effect.

[Crescent_Dusk]

It's not just DPS lacking due to itemization. Look at the records, summoner is way behind black mage and even bard.

You can make the DPS equal on a single target but a black mage will still have much better aoe, the black mage can burst key adds, and the black mage has his teleport and mana wall to boot.

It's not just DPS it's utility and personal defenses.

[Gamer3427]

I had a nice long post typed out, but cursed character limit, (2510 characters on a 1000 character limit, lol), so here's the abridged version....

I don't look at the Arcanist family as a pure DPS class, it's meant more in a support vein, with dealing damage being a secondary purpose. Comparing the damage of a Summoner to a Black Mage is like comparing the healing abilities of a Paladin to a White Mage. By not having our support effects take place on bosses, we're essentially having our abilities cut in half. Don't get me wrong, I love my class, especially when I'm taking on FATE bosses or large groups solo, but when I'm in a dungeon or raid and can't use what I consider the primary effect of half my abilities I do feel a little jipped. Against most bosses, we either lose the status effect of our abilities or they have little to no effect, (blind and heavy are particularly useless since after the tank grabs them they're locked down and their attacks always hit regardless).....

[Gamer3427]

Sorry to double post, but character limit.....

Despite what I said, I'm perfectly fine with Shadow Flare's ability being a slow effect. The slow effect is incredibly useful for cutting down on damage when it works. I went into the Wanderer's Palace as a Scholar earlier with a few friends and being able to crowd slow the adds made healing our tank a lot easier.....

[Crescent_Dusk]

Sorry to double post, but character limit.....

Despite what I said, I'm perfectly fine with Shadow Flare's ability being a slow effect. The slow effect is incredibly useful for cutting down on damage when it works. I went into the Wanderer's Palace as a Scholar earlier with a few friends and being able to crowd slow the adds made healing our tank a lot easier.....

The way you bypass character limit is you type your whole thing, then select all but a single sentence of your text and "Cut". Post that single sentence. Then edit your post and paste the rest of the text after that sentence.

The character limit is absurdly dumb, but there's a workaround for it.

[Fatshine]

It's not just DPS lacking due to itemization. Look at the records, summoner is way behind black mage and even bard.

You can make the DPS equal on a single target but a black mage will still have much better aoe, the black mage can burst key adds, and the black mage has his teleport and mana wall to boot.

It's not just DPS it's utility and personal defenses.

Umm, no. Bard is still the lowest DPS, and BLM beats SMN if both players are of equal skill. I rarely get beaten by other BLM since getting my Zeta recently and testing my own BiS gear set. To see a Summoner at it's peak is shocking. Just the other night I was at 550+ DPS on T13, equal to the MONK when that should never happen outside AOE.

[Crescent_Dusk]

Umm, no. Bard is still the lowest DPS, and BLM beats SMN if both players are of equal skill. I rarely get beaten by other BLM since getting my Zeta recently and testing my own BiS gear set. To see a Summoner at it's peak is shocking. Just the other night I was at 550+ DPS on T13, equal to the MONK when that should never happen outside AOE.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

Look at Summoner. Look at Bard. You're wrong.

[Zamii]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

Look at Summoner. Look at Bard. You're wrong.

normally i would say DnT leaderboards are a good resource, but this is one of the few times its probably more misleading than accurate, DnT players (at least the good ones) dont normally mess around with sub par classes, and it was known fairly early on in 2.4 that summoner wasnt going to be very good due to itemization.

[Fatshine]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...#gid=722665224

Look at Summoner. Look at Bard. You're wrong.

lol you are using DnT as a Holy Grail? Nobody in DnT mains Summoner, nor takes it seriously. It has been stated before. Also, you should conduct your own tests and see whether things are true or not. So no an equally skilled SMN will beat an equally skilled BRD.

[Crescent_Dusk]

lol you are using DnT as a Holy Grail? Nobody in DnT mains Summoner, nor takes it seriously. It has been stated before. Also, you should conduct your own tests and see whether things are true or not. So no an equally skilled SMN will beat an equally skilled BRD.

Yeah, clearly the 2nd place and current top NA guild in FFXIV knows nothing about summoners and for that we have you for the answers. Thank god for you.

[Fatshine]

Yeah, clearly the 2nd place and current top NA guild in FFXIV knows nothing about summoners and for that we have you for the answers. Thank god for you.

Your welcome