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  1. #31
    Player
    Kallera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    4,160
    Character
    Etoile Kallera
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Dark Knight Lv 60
    Quote Originally Posted by Magis View Post
    Bard should have been a support role or just not exist. ARC should have gone to Ranger. Even SE said the healer lb role made no sense.
    Unrelated. But healer lb doesn't seem to help near as much as it should. Especially given the first two seem nigh useless in a pt.
    (2)

  2. #32
    Player
    Risvertasashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    4,706
    Character
    Makani Risvertasashi
    World
    Ultros
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Kallera View Post
    Unrelated. But healer lb doesn't seem to help near as much as it should. Especially given the first two seem nigh useless in a pt.
    I'd say this is the bigger issue. If both healers get taken out and you have no SMN, healer LB3 gives BRDs a way to get them back. In general, though it often fails, it can at least attempt to recover a fight.

    But healer LB1 and 2 are just useless. You can get just as much or more healing throughput from regular spells with the same or less cast time than LB. I guess a BRD could use it to help healers out when things are going down the toilet but I haven't seen that happen even once.
    (2)

  3. #33
    Player
    Verdan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    503
    Character
    Verdan Lankost
    World
    Goblin
    Main Class
    Carpenter Lv 70
    Bard here is interesting from a design stance(trying to cram the quintessential support class into a ranged damage class is ambitious) but didn't quite work out all that well, since there's gonna be people playing it who wanna be bard-ass-bards and there's people who wanna play a gosh darn archer; meaning you can't really develop the roles as strongly as you could if it was split. They're deep in that hole now and there's probably no way out of it, but I think that was a blunder.
    (3)

  4. #34
    Player
    Niwashi's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    5,248
    Character
    Y'kayah Tia
    World
    Coeurl
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 50
    I wish we had a support Bard and DPS Ranger. Having just one that's called Bard but plays more like Ranger doesn't seem to quite fit. (And the explanation that a bow is sort of like a harp since they both have strings is just ...)
    (5)

  5. #35
    Player
    Kyros's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    306
    Character
    Odiron Dulmare
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 60
    SMN - Definitively a half-assed job. Mechanically it works wonders, but it's flavor leaves much to be desired. I wouldn't even consider it a Pet class. The Egi's function more or less as an extra DoT that it's just "there', like an auto-attack from a melee job.

    BRD - Who here honestly thinks "Hey, a DPS!" when they hear of a Bard? Feels a lot like "Ninja" tanks back in FFXI. I mean, it works, but it's kind of a broken concept.

    BLM - It's basically a Fire Mage. Instead of being a master of the dark arts, or a master of the elements, it's just a Fire Mage. I had actually liked what they did with the Ice/Fire duality at the start, but by the time you're 40 the Ice aspect of the job is almost completely gone. Thunder is also on a very sad state. Plus, about the only "Dark" spells you have is Sleep and Scathe, yay? Also the Archer requirement is... extremely odd lore-wise.

    PLD - It looks like a PLD, has the requirements of a PLD (Sub WHM), is called PLD, but it's actually a Knight. The only native spell it has is Flash, and it's not even one you learn as a PLD (GLD is apparently more magical than PLD).
    (6)

  6. #36
    Player
    Lemuria's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    1,769
    Character
    Lemuria Glitterhands
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Conjurer Lv 100
    Jobs that don't feel like they should? There's quite the list...

    Bard: Very lacking in support songs, all of them have a persistent MP cost associated with them and they're really nothing special.

    Summoner: Where's the summons? We get three weak pets, with only four skills a piece (5 if you count the special ability) and no one uses anything except Garuda. I would have preferred FFXI's perpetuation costs and powerful summons to ARR's weak afterthoughts.

    Black Mage: Master of the elements... as long as it's only Fire, Ice and Lightning. Only one true DPS spell (fire) and since the entire game has decided to back-peddle on elemental weaknesses (a feature which was in 1.0), it feels too generic. There's no option to strategically choose your elements to suit the fight. You just cast fire for damage and ice for MP regen. Joyous.

    Scholar: In all previous iterations, Scholar was a mix of White and Black mage. Almost similar to Red Mage, only with more magic and no melee combat skills. Here it's... well, I'm not actually sure. It's some weird hybrid of DoT dps who summons fairies to help. Fairies? When did fairies ever feature in FF jobs? I still enjoy the class we have, but that doesn't make it faithful to the franchise.

    Rogue: Okay, technically not a job but everyone was expecting Thief when Rogue was announced. What we got was anything but. Mug is one of the lamest THF skills ever invented. Even Treasure Hunter from FFXI (a trait) was superior to this in every way. Where's the Steal skill? What happened to Mug letting you grab gil from your enemies? A serious disappointment.

    Here are some jobs they almost nailed though.

    White Mage: It heals, it revives and it casts Holy. What more could you want? I feel it would have been better improved had they given their 'nuke' spells to Black Mage and instead used spells like Banish or Dia in their place. It would make more sense for a WHM to cast divine nukes than it does for them to cast Stone. Still, in 1.0 they had ALL the nukes so I can't grumble.

    Paladin: Another case of almost perfect. Good defensive skills, even has spells. Lacking cures though. Paladin's were known for self-healing, so it feels conspicuous by its absence. They were also traditionally best against undead, so again it feels like a bit of a loss that we don't have that.

    Monk: Turn mobs into your own personal punching bag. Great fun. The only reason it's on my 'almost there' list is because it lacks a flashy move or two. Dragoons can leap around like a kangaroo on a pogo stick, and they get some really flashy stuff. Monk, by comparison, really doesn't. Also, I miss Hundred Fists from XI. That was fun.

    Here are the jobs they got down so perfectly it's hard to fault it.
    Warrior: Hit things hard with a big axe until they die. What could be simpler? All their trademark skills are there, and a few more besides.

    Dragoon: FFXI players would argue that it's not a true dragoon without the wyvern to which I'll say... 'what'? I always found it ironic that a class dedicated to killing dragons would keep one as a pet. Here in ARR all the skills they need are there, and it has plenty of impact and fluff to make people get all excitable when they first level it.

    No doubt some will disagree with my list, but that's my personal take on the jobs
    (6)

  7. #37
    Player
    Felis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Gridania
    Posts
    12,287
    Character
    Skadi Felis
    World
    Ragnarok
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 70
    Quote Originally Posted by Allistar View Post
    GLD---should have been the other tank job, just none magical.
    Gladiator is tank

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemuria View Post
    White Mage: It heals, it revives and it casts Holy. What more could you want? I feel it would have been better improved had they given their 'nuke' spells to Black Mage and instead used spells like Banish or Dia in their place. It would make more sense for a WHM to cast divine nukes than it does for them to cast Stone. Still, in 1.0 they had ALL the nukes so I can't grumble.
    This would have happen, if SE gave THM the WHM job instead of toss away all THM spells and tear up the CNJ elemental spells.
    Giving WHM job to CNJ was a bad idea. With THM we could have a Astral/Umbral DoT WHM
    (0)
    Last edited by Felis; 05-07-2015 at 03:00 AM.

  8. #38
    Player
    Evangela's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    グリダニア
    Posts
    4,361
    Character
    Evangela Monterossa
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Ninja Lv 90
    FFXIV summoner must be the worst summoner of the entire FF series.
    (7)

  9. #39
    Player
    rwyan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    134
    Character
    Deeg Astra
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 50
    I think the issue is the battle system per say. Jobs will always fall into 1 of 3 roles it seems: DPS, Tank, or Healer. While hybrids could exist, they don't actually fit all too well in the current design. Arcanist is the closest I think we'll get to a hybrid, and that is only because you have access to a DPS Job or a Healer Job as a result (you still have to invest time into iLvls for both jobs though).

    Without some adjustments to the battle system, I think future jobs will focus on bringing flavor via gear, weapon looks, ability animations, etc...
    (2)

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Magis View Post
    Bard should have been a support role or just not exist. ARC should have gone to Ranger. Even SE said the healer lb role made no sense.
    yes and no. the game needs Paeon and Ballad but the game also can't support a full support job. a full support job that's not a DPS would be too weak in 4 man groups or too strong in 8 man groups.
    (2)

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