Dark knights and progression

[SpookyGhost]

Nobody used WAR MT for world first progression because at low gear levels, PLD was superior due to having a shield and being able to Hallowed one of the Flattens. Hallowed is basically the big edge that PLD has over WAR for MTing in progression because it allows you to just skip over one tank buster to see more of the fight.

WAR, meanwhile, can do 2 specific things as MT for 13:

1.) Mitigate every Flare Breath with IB. This makes the shield not as big of an advantage as the shield only works on Flattens and auto attacks.

2.) More damage as MT, with basically free reign to use Unchained whenever it's up due to how things line up if done correctly.

The main problem for WAR is that Flatten happens every 50s-ish, as opposed to every 60. This forces the WAR into a situation where he cant rotate Veng -> Thrill + Conv w/ IB and has to use other CDs (including Infuriate) very carefully. The WAR will undoubtedly take more damage from Flattens because of this, on top of PLD being able to ignore 1 Flatten entirely, so for progression (and damage not being an issue) PLD would be the superior choice.

However, if you do run into a DPS issue and Hallowed isn't necessary for the point you are at in progression, then WAR MT could be the better option. This also requires the WAR to have a brain, which is suprisingly hard to come by. DPS was never really an apparent issue for most groups, so they stuck with PLD MT. However, this is just T13 we're looking at - Alexander Savage will surely have tighter DPS checks and if Hallowed isn't necessary then we could certainly see the higher DPS tank comp taking the lead; whether thats WAR MT/PLD OT, WAR MT/DRK OT, or DRK MT/WAR OT is a mystery. It could very well even be DRK MT/PLD OT.

But yeah, WAR MT was fine for T13 progression, just Hallowed was an easier workaround for seeing more phases since progression pushed so quickly. If you were lagging behind, WAR MT could've been a viable option but it wasn't explored since most groups defaulted to PLD MT.

[Risvertasashi]

This also requires the WAR to have a brain, which is suprisingly hard to come by. DPS was never really an apparent issue for most groups, so they stuck with PLD MT.

To be fair, PLDs without a brain (or much of one) are a very hard to heal through the flarebreath/flatten combo as well. The difference between a good PLD and a mediocre one there is night and day.

But... all in all and barring fight-specific mechanics that might give a particular tank an advantage, why wouldn't you use the more defensive tank for progression MTing? It will be interesting to see where DRK falls, since if it's debuff based that will basically cement PLD as MT for mobs that absolutely truck the tank, a la using Storm's now.

[Dawning-Blue]

Maybe DRK could be a solo job class. Can tank and DPS

[ks3v3n]

dunno if any1 knows about this

seems like they are op early on, if their skills go live like that and the balancing takes some time (like it did with nin)

[Carstien]

dunno if any1 knows about this

seems like they are op early on, if their skills go live like that and the balancing takes some time (like it did with nin)

Read the big red letters going down. The first letter of every attack and cooldown name.

[Alphras]

It is even spelled out at the bottom.

[Rhaja]

Just taking a wild guess here, but I'm starting to think that DRK/PLD may take the cake depending on a few things. There's the possible chance that DRK will have the better magic def, and with their focus on MP usage it'll limit the need for TP boost and stay focused on Ballad. Another thing is wholly dependent on what kind of debuff they get. Also Sword Oath, in long fights, supposedly does more damage than a WAR out of defiance. This plus cover and the new wall ability, along with a riot blade combo, may very well give them the edge. Not to mention the tossing around of Stone Skin to help conserve healer MP.

Side note; I know it's not something considered often, but considering the size of their swords, it's possible they could get blunt crushing damage as their type, giving them synergy with MNK. A sword that size honestly wouldn't need an edge to be effective; just gravity and momentum. Plus, if they do have better magic damage mitigation, MNK's could make them even more resilient while helping increase the damage.

[stoxastic]

DRKs need to be busted in one way or another to replace PLD or WAR in 3.0 progression.

DRKs either need to have an excellent mitigation suite that rivals PLD's (Rampart, Sentinel, Bulwark, HALLOWED GROUND, blocking, STR down debuff) or the utility that beats the offensive and defensive utility that WAR provides (Storm's Eye, Storm's Path, high DPS while still being able to tank effectively).

Maybe if they give DRK Dragon Kick or something it might enable NIN + DRG progression comps.

[Carstien]

I can picture DRK having an int debuff, or a magic resistance down debuff on one of its combos. Obviously they would clash with mnk or Brd respectively, much like storm's eye does with nin, but it would be a nice way to give them value in an already established meta. If given the choice I would assume the int debuff as mag res down would be a little on the over powered side.

I can't see them having more magic resistance, our current ranks have a lot of that already with both gear and cooldownS. A magic damage combo or aoe though...that is a likely possibility. This of course would make Drk + war valid for something Like T11, where the pld holds his own through the merits of the str debuff and superior defensive capabilities.

In the end though, I have a feeling SE will take steps with the next ten levels on our current tanks to make any of the three combinations, doubles obviously excluded, valid for all content.