Red Mage

[OmegaNovaios]

The Summoner is fillimg the Red Mage slot currently but in Heavensward they are suppose to focus on Dreadwrym Trance summoning and harnessing the power of primals. Red Mage is going to be the Melee DoT caster

That literally sounds more boring than 2.0 SMN as it would also be w/o a pet even though all the pet does is auto-attack.

RDM Melee full of DoTs... I will literally commit virtual seppuku if that is the best SE can do with RDM.

[Stormsoul]

That literally sounds more boring than 2.0 SMN as it would also be w/o a pet even though all the pet does is auto-attack.

RDM Melee full of DoTs... I will literally commit virtual seppuku if that is the best SE can do with RDM.

dunno, sounds fine to me if done right. could have a rapier stab/bleed, poison, a fire dot (dualcast? one cast does small direct damage, the other cast leaves a dot)... along with some white magic stuff like a cure and protect/shell for a little bit of hybrid support.

[Atlaworks]

Hi there! I've written up a Red Mage mockup in another topic(http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...8Concept%21%29) that would work perfectly fine in a melee DPS role still classified as a DoM class, while being perfectly unique in it's class playstyle. It's possible to make a red mage without breaking the holy trinity!

And I'm sorry for blatant advertisement but it's actually pertinent to the topic for once.

[Seku]

Snip

1. You're right. Their not going to be able to make another job without it being a rehash. They can make it interesting however by giving it mechanics and abilities to make it play differently and the buffs they give something not on the table.

2. Yes, it's getting better because their adding more flavor and mechanics to the jobs. The way I listed out RDM was to give an idea of what it's core and basic concept could be, not literately to be taken as play a summoner clone. As the traditional RDM was just the back up plan for unexpected situations, however these situations don't exist within 14 other than temporary immunity to damage types. Best way I find to make it meet this would be to incorporate DoT's, then give it something else to do to support the party or to add on more damage to be a pure DPS at their choice, thus taking away the pet and making it a more engaging job. It would however have different mechanics to it.

[ManaKing]

It's kind of funny, because they are already abandoning the Egi on SMN in order to focus on SMN as a Caster. I mean it will still be there, but it's pretty obvious they don't like how inconsistent their pet system responds to commands from the player. They gave them no new pet actions that we can see for SMN and SCH get to eat their fairy to boost their healing potency. It's not going to be very far off from what you were talking about since Virus on SMN is one of the few debuffs that really works.

I'm not sure what buffs and debuffs they will actually leave on the table. Interrupts and status effects that interupt are basically not a thing. Mitigation buffs from tanks are generally reliable...except for Hollowed Ground or Holmgang. I'm not talking about their delayed activation time. Just that if the dev team decides that a move or mechanic instantly kills your tank, then these moves aren't going to save. Virus, Storm's Path, Rage of Halone, Trick Attack, and the slashing/piercing/blunt/foes req debuffs seem to always apply to every fight. The only thing I can think of that doesn't stack is the different slashing debuffs from WAR and NIN and that does make sense.

When they add Weapon Break and Mind Shot I wonder if it will stack with Virus/Rage of Halone/Drgaon Kick and if they will be 100% dependable. So far this game has done a good job of making me happy with what can/can't stack. Stone Skin and Galvanize don't make your WHM and SCH redundant. Multiple Regens and DoTs can be on the same target if they are from different sources. They are really trying to not let the jobs step on each other like they did in FFXI and so I'm hopeful. I enjoy throwing Storms Path + Dragon Kick + Virus on Bosses to be able to live through their AOE wipe attacks. I want to be able to throw buffs like Phallanx or magical damage mitigation buffs on tanks or other debuffs and not have them get marginalized or invalidated for the sake of 'balance'. If stacking too much of something is going ruin the balance in your game, then you really shouldn't have put it in your game to begin with. There is nothing worse than having abilities that are really good, but then don't work when you are in a party.

There is already some of this in the game with Stun/Slow/Silence/Pacification/Haymaker and it's downright infuriating that you spent one of your abilities on something that you just won't use in any relevant situation. I used to cross class Haymaker on my WAR because I was being salty, but ultimately it's a bad fit for WAR because of their stack mechanics make it impractical and the slow doesn't work for anything you'd want to slow. And obviously you shouldn't be using it on your MNK because that would imply that you are taking hits.

[Akiza]

Enfeebling is useless on bosses. Red Mage as DoT spell blade cass can work if they add procs and an enspell mechanic which empowers their rapier with tier 1 fire, thunder and blizzard spells can work. Red Mage can work as a Melee Support Caster DPS since that role hasn't been filled yet.

[Seku]

lol wut?.

Enfeebling is useless on bosses? Then why is Dragon kick, ninja's vulnerability[trick attack], silence, stun,and Virus required on end game raids?

Enfeebling works best on boss encounters, more so when you're not maxed out on ilevel for said content.

[Akiza]

Enfeebling is useless on bosses? Then why is Dragon kick, ninja's vulnerability[trick attack], silence, stun,and Virus required on end game raids?

Enfeebling works best on boss encounters, more so when you're not maxed out on ilevel for said content.

I was talking about Arcanist DoTs which should have useful enfeebling effects but they don't. Heavy and reduction in healing is useless on mobs or bosses but work well in pvp.

[Akiza]

I think Red Mage is going to be in the Melee Caster Enfeebler Role based on what the future of Summoner looks like.

[ManaKing]

I was talking about Arcanist DoTs which should have useful enfeebling effects but they don't. Heavy and reduction in healing is useless on mobs or bosses but work well in pvp.

I think Red Mage is going to be in the Melee Caster Enfeebler Role based on what the future of Summoner looks like.

So your general idea is that something like Bio that does DoT and should generally be up 100% of the time should also do some kind of a useful debuff? I get the whole FFXI idea with Bio and Dia, but this game is clearly not FFXI. Miasma already does something like this, which you pointed out, but is relegated to being 'useless' because of it's applications. It's really no different than other jobs that do combo cycles that alternate with a damage & utility combo. You're doing maintenance on the mob. So if it could be in this game but it's not, then you really have to ask the question, why not? And the answer is simple.

This dev team doesn't want to make an analog to FFXI and they don't want to draw the comparison which is why none of the jobs in this game resemble FFXI. I give them credit for trying things differently and because of that they aren't stuck in the same rut as FFXI because that game still hasn't been balanced/fixed to this day. They are stuck in their own rut that they created for themselves and it looks like they might be working themselves out of it with this expansion.

I don't think an Enfeebler Role will exist in this game because it's too niche and they don't want to have to balance around it or water it down later. FFXI RDM was a lot of fun, but their dev team made a mistake to invest that much of a job into Enfeebling + Refresh just to abandon it later. Everyone Enfeebles in this game but they do other things too like....TANK/DPS/HEAL.

Just another example of this kind of move is Shadow Flare. It has a persistent attack speed slow on it and does AoE damage, but no one uses it for the attack speed slow. They only use it for the damage, because that's what it's good for. And you have to know it's extra work to add tags to the mobs that are immune to slow effects. It's not like they can't make it work, they intentionally don't want it to.