DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Welsper59]

In what you're asking them to do, it's not the parser that would get them banned... it's using it to harass/degrade other players that would get them banned. =/

Indeed. This is argument at hand though. Gloating is not a bannable offense by itself. Don't you think that it's odd that suddenly because it's involving a parser (a third party program) that you could suddenly get banned? The gloating is what caused someone to bother reporting you (in that if you didn't gloat, they wouldn't take offense to it) and is usually why people will get caught doing something they shouldn't. The GMs potential actions however is a direct result of you having the parser. It's the primary focus of why they can take action against you. If parsers were officially accepted, they wouldn't be able to do the same thing so easily. That's my point on the matter. Parsers are why severe actions could take place, they just typically aren't the reason someone felt the need to report you (it was your bad behavior that generally does that).

I can provide examples of people misusing vote kick, thats pretty irrelevant to the fact that it still serves it's purpose and is used appropriately in majority cases. The fact is that fodder content like primals, dungeons don't have DPS checks that are difficult to meet because everyone outgears content by 20-40 ilvls. As such DPS optimization is not a requirement to clear the content so people won't construct their party requirements for optimization 99 times out of a 100. The 'wall' that you're talking about only exists for relevant content which you and majority of the people in this thread don't even pursue until you overgear the content and it's nerfed.

You can keep believing that's its not misused because of ToS. Like I said, lack of perspective will lead your reasoning towards that.

You do realize that games like WoW, use ilvl as well right? Yet, the more important thing, which is what I think most can agree with, is actual DPS output. Why would people rely on ilvl when actual numbers are better examples of potential? Not a bad thing on its own, but people have always used it when they can to do even the simplest content in any MMORPG. People want things to be fast and easy. They'll expect unreasonable requirements to do things. I've seen it firsthand... in all content and in nearly every similar type of MMORPG I've played or heard of. Heck, we see it everytime new content is released. People mocking others or expecting them to know CT fights on first day release. We always always encounter players being stupid to show off in some way, or to make things unreasonable for others. It's not TOO bad here, due to circumstance, but there's not much reason to simply add another thing for others to despise their peers over.

Unless this is your first MMORPG or you haven't been around the genre for more than several years, it's surprising you wouldn't have seen it yourself... unless you were one of those people or oblivious to it. Edit: Err wait... misunderstood that misuse comment.

Or you can just to go the DPS sub forum and see how many parses are posted on a daily basis with no repercussions.

Forums are forums. There's a lot less personal responsibility involved, because it is not the game itself. For example, I can claim I use bots in this game here and nothing will happen to me in-game. It might cause a temp ban from the forums though, depending on what's going on. These are not governed by the GMs you will encounter in-game. Do it in-game, in the same manner I said.

[Massterchef]

You do realize that games like WoW, use ilvl as well right? Yet, the more important thing, which is what I think most can agree with, is actual DPS output. Why would people rely on ilvl when actual numbers are better examples of potential? Not a bad thing on its own, but people have always used it when they can to do even the simplest content in any MMORPG. People want things to be fast and easy. They'll expect unreasonable requirements to do things. I've seen it firsthand... in all content. Heck, we see it everytime new content is released. People mocking others or expecting them to know CT fights on first day release. We always always encounter players being stupid to show off in some way, or to make things unreasonable for others.

Unless this is your first MMORPG or you haven't been around the genre for more than several years, it's surprising you wouldn't have seen it yourself... unless you were one of those people or oblivious to it.



Forums are forums. There's a lot less personal responsibility involved, because it is not the game itself. For example, I can claim I use bots in this game here and nothing will happen to me in-game. It might cause a temp ban from the forums though, depending on what's going on. These are not governed by the GMs you will encounter in-game. Do it in-game, in the same manner I said.

The fact is again, these fights do not require DPS optimization to complete when you overgear them. As such, majority parties will not be setting their party requirements as such. Hence the reason you don't see an i130 requirement Titan HM, nor an i130 Shiva and any primal/dungeon requirement. Once you've reduced your argument to speculation, it's really not even a conversation anymore.

"Forums are forums". But it is a parse of the game itself. Tangible proof that you are using the program.

[Welsper59]

The fact is again, these fights do not require DPS optimization to complete when you overgear them. As such, majority parties will not be setting their party requirements as such. Hence the reason you don't see an i130 requirement Titan HM, nor an i130 Shiva and any primal/dungeon requirement. Once you've reduced your argument to speculation, it's really not even a conversation anymore.

"Forums are forums". But it is a parse of the game itself. Tangible proof that you are using the program.

Unfortunately, our arguments are both based on at least some speculations. I speak from factual history though on player conduct repeating itself if given the opportunity, but it is still at least some speculation to claim it would happen here. Likewise, it is for you as well to claim it wouldn't. It is easier to mask unreasonable requirements when you state them in ways that don't clearly imply them. If you did, it'd be like the example I said of people expecting everyone to know how to clear CT raids in the first day. Most of us would agree, those idiots expect more than they should. Saying "must do X DPS" is a lot more forgiving of ridicule by your peers than it is to state the ilvl, which is also why that will take the place of ilvl requirements we currently have in most situations with players.

It is not enough proof to take action on, is the point. Like I said, I could claim I bot/hack/buy gil/etc in the game here. Nothing will happen to me in-game because there's a lot less personal responsibility involved when dealing with your actions here and your actions in-game. They could however, use that as justification to my being caught in-game if misused as a means to counter any negligence I want to show as defense. They're not going to go out of their way to catch you on this though, as the severity of it being expressed in-game is different from being expressed on a forum. This is how procedures and consequences work on differing formats.

[Massterchef]

Unfortunately, our arguments are both based on at least some speculations.

Your examples are anomalies. My examples contain what is majority accepted. Which would suggest your argument is pretty weak. The reason we don't see unrealistic expectations like i130 required dungeons,primals or what have you is because the majority have an understanding of the required DPS to complete an instance.

It is not enough proof to take action on, is the point. Like I said, I could claim I bot/hack/buy gil/etc in the game here.

Go ahead and claim it, include the site and/or bot you buy from/use and lemme know how that goes for you.

[Welsper59]

Go ahead and claim it, include the site and/or bot you buy from/use and lemme know how that goes for you.

The site mentioned is what will get you banned from the forums. Likewise, pointing out the exact site for parsing will probably do the same, if not just delete the thread. So what? We all know admitting to use of bots and such will get you banned if admitted to in the game (along with sufficient evidence or reason to do this). No outside proof needed on that one. You, however, keep implying that admitting to parsing in the game won't, this includes admitting to a GM about it (and finding out for proof whether or not they will ban you for it). So... balls in your court. Gonna do it?