DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Zaft]

It is still against the tos to admit to the usage of parsers and 3rd party tools

That's lip service and you know it. Nearly every person who streams streams with a parser visible, including every major FC. People discuss parsers in chat (party, linkshell, FC, hell even shout) all the time. And I've yet to hear of a single person besides the one person who started the whole "OMG PARSERS ARE ILLEGALZ" craze that has been reprimanded in any way, shape or form for using or admitting to use a parser.

[Welsper59]

That's lip service and you know it. Nearly every person who streams streams with a parser visible, including every major FC. People discuss parsers in chat (party, linkshell, FC, hell even shout) all the time. And I've yet to hear of a single person besides the one person who started the whole "OMG PARSERS ARE ILLEGALZ" craze that has been reprimanded in any way, shape or form for using or admitting to use a parser.

They don't exactly care about parsers by themselves if people don't misuse them, that's why. It's low on the priorities list of actions to take. It is however, a tool the GMs have leverage with to use to fight said players acts of harassment and bad behavior if it involves their use of it.

An old example.

[Massterchef]

An old example.

That's also not a good example considering it was a year ago and they admitted to giving out a lot of early bans. They are far more lenient on the issue. Got another example these past 3 months?

[Welsper59]

That's also not a good example considering it was a year ago and they admitted to giving out a lot of early bans. They are far more lenient on the issue. Got another example these past 3 months?

Nope, but you can test it in-game for us if you really believe the things you claim or imply. The rest of us would love to find out what happens, be it nothing at all or something like a ban. Do something similar to that old example, where you gloat and somewhat mock another person to get the GM involved. Then you'll have the opportunity to prove parsing means nothing. Admit to the GM about the use and that you are fully aware that they, from what you believe, will not have the right to do anything bad just because of your use of a third party program that parses. It's the same situation that would get you involved with the GM, so we'd know there wouldn't be too many unknown variables at play.

[Eidolon]

Nope, but you can test it in-game for us if you really believe the things you claim or imply. The rest of us would love to find out what happens, be it nothing at all or something like a ban. Do something similar to that old example, where you gloat and somewhat mock another person to get the GM involved. Then you'll have the opportunity to prove parsing means nothing. Admit to the GM about the use and that you are fully aware that they, from what you believe, will not have the right to do anything bad just because of your use of a third party program that parses. It's the same situation that would get you involved with the GM, so we'd know there wouldn't be too many unknown variables at play.

In what you're asking them to do, it's not the parser that would get them banned... it's using it to harass/degrade other players that would get them banned. =/

[Welsper59]

In what you're asking them to do, it's not the parser that would get them banned... it's using it to harass/degrade other players that would get them banned. =/

Indeed. This is argument at hand though. Gloating is not a bannable offense by itself. Don't you think that it's odd that suddenly because it's involving a parser (a third party program) that you could suddenly get banned? The gloating is what caused someone to bother reporting you (in that if you didn't gloat, they wouldn't take offense to it) and is usually why people will get caught doing something they shouldn't. The GMs potential actions however is a direct result of you having the parser. It's the primary focus of why they can take action against you. If parsers were officially accepted, they wouldn't be able to do the same thing so easily. That's my point on the matter. Parsers are why severe actions could take place, they just typically aren't the reason someone felt the need to report you (it was your bad behavior that generally does that).

I can provide examples of people misusing vote kick, thats pretty irrelevant to the fact that it still serves it's purpose and is used appropriately in majority cases. The fact is that fodder content like primals, dungeons don't have DPS checks that are difficult to meet because everyone outgears content by 20-40 ilvls. As such DPS optimization is not a requirement to clear the content so people won't construct their party requirements for optimization 99 times out of a 100. The 'wall' that you're talking about only exists for relevant content which you and majority of the people in this thread don't even pursue until you overgear the content and it's nerfed.

You can keep believing that's its not misused because of ToS. Like I said, lack of perspective will lead your reasoning towards that.

You do realize that games like WoW, use ilvl as well right? Yet, the more important thing, which is what I think most can agree with, is actual DPS output. Why would people rely on ilvl when actual numbers are better examples of potential? Not a bad thing on its own, but people have always used it when they can to do even the simplest content in any MMORPG. People want things to be fast and easy. They'll expect unreasonable requirements to do things. I've seen it firsthand... in all content and in nearly every similar type of MMORPG I've played or heard of. Heck, we see it everytime new content is released. People mocking others or expecting them to know CT fights on first day release. We always always encounter players being stupid to show off in some way, or to make things unreasonable for others. It's not TOO bad here, due to circumstance, but there's not much reason to simply add another thing for others to despise their peers over.

Unless this is your first MMORPG or you haven't been around the genre for more than several years, it's surprising you wouldn't have seen it yourself... unless you were one of those people or oblivious to it. Edit: Err wait... misunderstood that misuse comment.

Or you can just to go the DPS sub forum and see how many parses are posted on a daily basis with no repercussions.

Forums are forums. There's a lot less personal responsibility involved, because it is not the game itself. For example, I can claim I use bots in this game here and nothing will happen to me in-game. It might cause a temp ban from the forums though, depending on what's going on. These are not governed by the GMs you will encounter in-game. Do it in-game, in the same manner I said.

[Massterchef]

You do realize that games like WoW, use ilvl as well right? Yet, the more important thing, which is what I think most can agree with, is actual DPS output. Why would people rely on ilvl when actual numbers are better examples of potential? Not a bad thing on its own, but people have always used it when they can to do even the simplest content in any MMORPG. People want things to be fast and easy. They'll expect unreasonable requirements to do things. I've seen it firsthand... in all content. Heck, we see it everytime new content is released. People mocking others or expecting them to know CT fights on first day release. We always always encounter players being stupid to show off in some way, or to make things unreasonable for others.

Unless this is your first MMORPG or you haven't been around the genre for more than several years, it's surprising you wouldn't have seen it yourself... unless you were one of those people or oblivious to it.



Forums are forums. There's a lot less personal responsibility involved, because it is not the game itself. For example, I can claim I use bots in this game here and nothing will happen to me in-game. It might cause a temp ban from the forums though, depending on what's going on. These are not governed by the GMs you will encounter in-game. Do it in-game, in the same manner I said.

The fact is again, these fights do not require DPS optimization to complete when you overgear them. As such, majority parties will not be setting their party requirements as such. Hence the reason you don't see an i130 requirement Titan HM, nor an i130 Shiva and any primal/dungeon requirement. Once you've reduced your argument to speculation, it's really not even a conversation anymore.

"Forums are forums". But it is a parse of the game itself. Tangible proof that you are using the program.

[Massterchef]

Nope, but you can test it in-game for us

Or you can just to go the DPS sub forum and see how many parses are posted on a daily basis with no repercussions.

[Kallera]

That's lip service and you know it. Nearly every person who streams streams with a parser visible, including every major FC. People discuss parsers in chat (party, linkshell, FC, hell even shout) all the time. And I've yet to hear of a single person besides the one person who started the whole "OMG PARSERS ARE ILLEGALZ" craze that has been reprimanded in any way, shape or form for using or admitting to use a parser.

I know this would require liberal use of the paint tool to back up for "lip service"

It still doesn't change that the frequency and prevalence of it would rise sharply, along with abuse of it as a social tool.

[Zaft]

They don't exactly care about parsers by themselves if people don't misuse them, that's why. It's low on the priorities list of actions to take. It is however, a tool the GMs have leverage with to use to fight said players acts of harassment and bad behavior if it involves their use of it.

An old example.

That's the exact image that I was talking about in my post. I've seen literally nothing beyond it of anybody being reprimanded. Ever.

I know this would require liberal use of the paint tool to back up for "lip service"

It still doesn't change that the frequency and prevalence of it would rise sharply, along with abuse of it as a social tool.

What do you describe "abuse" as? Is abuse me telling you that you're doing bad DPS? Is it me removing you because you aren't up to minimum standards for the content? I don't consider either of those as abuse. In fact, the only kind of "abuse" I can think of is somebody being extremely rude and assholeish to somebody else because of their DPS, and I've nearly never seen that happen on ANY game, even ones where nearly everybody uses a parsing tool (such as WoW).