DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Firepower]

I am by no means a raider or even set foot into coil but I believe that there should be some way of telling if a DPS isn't pulling their weight. Considering there is already 2 indicators for enmity on the HUD I would impose swapping the enmity bars next to the names to a DPS meter where it is the same bars but in order of % of damage dealt to that enemy.

Allow the player to choose if they wish to have the enmity or DPS % bars much like they should be able to choose to see other players MP or TP. These 2 fixes to the HUD would make things much better. You can then see and expect to see the DPS classes in an 8 man raid be 1 2 3 4 followed by healers and tanks respectively, if a healer or tank is outputting more DPS than one of your DPS classes you could then easily see which one is not pulling their weight (or if 3 of your 4 dps have high bars and one doesn't you can clearly see that they have contributed a much lesser percentage of damage to that particular enemy). Players can still see how much enmity they have in comparison to the main tank simply by looking at the yellow/orange/red icon. Since it would also be able to be toggled between that and the enmity bar you also leave in piece of the HUD that tanks and healers might prefer to see.

This would work for a more casual aspect or the mid tier content like Primals. Hard-core raiders would still likely prefer 3rd party numerical DPS values which offer more insight into maximising potential for specific fights in top teir raids and world firsts and as such should be allowed to use them.

I say this because I know Yoshi went on record saying he did not want to add any more clutter to the current HUD or complicate things further to the player so allowing people to toggle on or off mp or tp (or both) and enmity/DPS (or both) would allow a player to maintain a similar HUD interface that is as cluttered or standardised as they wish. I would guess this wouldn't fall under PS3 limitations as it already records how much damage is being done and it already has the graphical interface present that could easily just swap what data it represents.

[Welsper59]

It's funny how me pointing out a fact in this case, your current progress as it stands, is somehow mocking your progress. You're welcome to bring your viewpoint into the conversation but if it comes from someone that has little to no experience raiding, using a parser or meeting any DPS checks when content is relevant then it should be pointed out in the context of the conversation.

My years of raiding mostly came from Vanilla WoW to Mists and from FFXI (though parsers were not needed there due to how things worked). Vanilla raids. TBC raids. WotLK raids. Heroic mode raids once in a blue moon towards the end of my play. I feel gross for acknowledging you on that though. /sigh It's sad really. You don't even realize what you do in this conversation. I'll just point out a small part of it.

The fact you retort with someones progress as a means to shut them down means you look to diminish their points. Your snide way of saying it means to look down upon that as a tool to do this. So you're using something like that as a means to mock. You don't even understand how the language you speak works. See how mockery functions there by pointing something unnecessary out?

[siverstorm]

snip

Honestly, that's probably fine too. NA duty finder is often filled with new players anyway.

I just firmly think it's worse that tanks and healers can be easily and quickly ousted for bad play and its fine, but if a dps is doing less than 60% of what their gear allows and causing undue stress on the entire party (of 7 other human beings) something needs to be done about it. I'm not even making wild expectations, an average dps can pull respectable numbers as long as they know their simple rotations.

On a related note regarding trivial content: It's still not okay that my Yagrush WHM can wreck almost half of the dps in augmented poetics AND keep up with heals in WoD on the first two bosses, but it is what it is.

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[Massterchef]

The fact you retort with someones progress as a means to shut them down means you look to diminish their points.

How does me pointing out that someone's view on a subject correlates with the fact that they don't push progression when it's relevant, somehow translate into me shutting them down and devaluing their opinion?

[Welsper59]

How does me pointing out that someone's view on a subject correlates with the fact that they don't push progression when it's relevant, somehow translate into me shutting them down and devaluing their opinion?

You're not addressing their concerns, which is the entire point of it. Unnecessarily stating things that have nothing to do with what they're talking about have nothing to do with what they're saying. You're looking to aggravate by stating these unnecessary things so you don't have to deal with it. While it may not be a concern to you, their points certainly hold more weight to them and the devs.

In the case of a point mentioned by you, the PS players lacking a means to parse is one thing, sure... I don't think anyone is saying otherwise. The fact remains though that, like trying to do endgame while max tier and new/relevant requires seeking out others to help you do this, so to should the idea of seeking out others to help you perform better. It's a minor handicap, at worst, for a PS player. It's something within their power to EASILY do when it comes to the context of endgame.

[Kallera]

How does me pointing out that someone's view on a subject correlates with the fact that they don't push progression when it's relevant, somehow translate into me shutting them down and devaluing their opinion?

Like it or not, the inclusion of a public parser would affect their experience as well when the progression populace decides to go to other content, as well as those that approaching progression content and are sandwiched between the two groups.

The consequences of the parser will be brought out in all dungeon content. And affect each player in turn, regardless if they are intentionally bad.

Even in this thread people are making assumptions of players with just chat. When does "name and shame" become "giving statistics" and letting the chips fall where they may on what value in which dungeon invites consequence?

[Massterchef]

You're not addressing their concerns

I've commented on every point brought up and addressed every concern.. There's nothing wrong with not pushing content. There's also nothing wrong with pointing out that someone does not push content.

[Massterchef]

The consequences of the parser will be brought out in all dungeon content.

This would be what I mean by lack of perspective. There is already parser-use in Primals,DRs,Trials, pretty much all content. Where are the consequences currently and why aren't they affecting you and other people en mass?

[Kallera]

This would be what I mean by lack of perspective. There is already parser-use in Primals,DRs,Trials, pretty much all content. Where are the consequences currently and why aren't they affecting you and other people en mass?

It is still against the tos to admit to the usage of parsers and 3rd party tools, the inclusion of a official parser would likely remove that restriction for at least parsers, and invite the PC crowd to make improved parsers or other 3rd party tools that work with the parser.

Also the console audience is not small. There are a lot of people that do not use it, as well as many who do not want to risk using it.

[Welsper59]

I've commented on every point brought up. There's nothing wrong with not pushing content. There's also nothing wrong with pointing out that someone does not push content.

Their concerns, in most cases, have nothing to do with the fact that harassment is still against ToS. It's the frequency and the eventual look to have another tool to separate content, in this case, a wall set up by players to do even content like EX fights by having unrealistic expectations (i.e. requiring FCoB gear numbers to do LEX). By frequency, I mean the increased occurrence of douchebags being douchebags.

Just because something is against ToS doesn't mean they won't do it. Case in point: parsers (due to requiring a 3rd party program)... bots, hacks, buying gil, current harassment or violations of safety and privacy, etc. Their side isn't saying that it won't happen anyway, but they're arguing that the frequency is minimal at most right now, and they (along with the devs) like it that way. Speaking from experience that's why, it will happen far more often. Just as you use someones raid progress in this game against them, so too will someone use their actual numbers against them (irrelevant of their potential because of circumstance like gear differences). It's just one more thing to make people hate the game and the community that exists within it. If the devs see fit to ever make it official, then so be it. The side that doesn't like it will have to deal or leave. It's as simple as that. It doesn't change the fact that the devs, as far as we know, still don't want it to be an official thing for similar reasons that the players here are expressing. It also doesn't change the fact that a simple workaround, like the one I suggested, exists and the devs are A-OK with it for the most part.