DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Magusrex]

The next post will be about how you are not an unforgiving lout in any way but are still human just like the rest of us.
I can come up with hypothetical players too, but I'm not so eager to use the blacklist or constantly gauging someone's worth to get out of a party. Am I bad for my choices?

You just like your next post is going to say how you are also human, and actually care how your performance affects the experience of others and want to get better even though you have absolutely zero interest in obtaining real data that would actually allow you to see how your performance is impacting. That doesn't make you lazy or selfish at all.

[siverstorm]

Its always amusing to see people downplay the negative behavior that being able to freely harass people with parser numbers brings. Give personal parsers so players in statics can learn and improve, but adding it freely to be spammed in PUG content is just wishing and praying for toxic behavior.

It's because most people overplay hypothetical situations. When you say the part about pug content, are you using it in context of the REST of my quote which you cut out? Are you saying it's going to be bad if they gave us an in game public parser for those pugging into t10-t13?

[SDaemon]

It's because most people overplay hypothetical situations. When you say the part about pug content, are you using it in context of the REST of my quote which you cut out? Are you saying it's going to be bad if they gave us an in game public parser for those pugging into t10-t13?

You mean the part about the public parser for DF groups in EX Primals and Coils? Yes.

[Darra]

That's great and all... but I don't play on the PC so I don't know what my numbers are and frankly I don't care. I've never cared. I don't play games to 'push myself', I play them to have fun and relax. If you find it fun to push yourself then great, more power to you. Just don't drag me into your power fantasy, I don't want any part of it. Nor should anyone else be forced into your idea of fun. This is the concern. People using publicly accessible parsers to try and push others without consent. "But they're consenting to it by taking part." No, no they aren't. They are taking part to take part. Nowhere does taking part include giving consent to ridicule, be it constructive or otherwise.

Your "arguments" are pathetic. No-one is pushing you into doing anything. It's a simple concept to grasp (except for you that is). If you choose to try joining a raiding team with aspirations of getting server firsts, then you need to accept that you'll be playing by their standards. Those people aren't approaching you and saying "join my team and do XYZ dps or I'll publicly shame you". Are you and those people you're "protecting", so pathetically weak minded individuals that you'll "feel pressured" into conforming to someone else's standards, when you aren't even going to be playing with them anyway?! If you choose to play with the top 5%, then you are by definition agreeing to their standards because you already share them or are willing to adopt them.

You constantly bring up the same argument time and again about how someone will be publicly ridiculed or harassed without once presenting any evidence that this would happen on the scale you're implying it would. Do you know why it wont happen on the scale you believe it will? 1: Not everyone is a dick, if you think that they are then you're a fool who should go find a therapist. 2: because the TOS forbids publicly naming and shaming AND it forbids harassment. An official parser does not mean that the official stance on harassment and naming and shaming will change.

Now this point I find bizarre:

I don't play games to 'push myself', I play them to have fun and relax. If you find it fun to push yourself then great, more power to you. Just don't drag me into your power fantasy, I don't want any part of it

If some of us find it fun to push ourselves and want others in our PF's or static groups to share the same idea, then please explain how we are dragging you into our power fantasy? Oh you mean because we can see your DPS numbers officially? That somehow means we're going to make you push yourself? Should you find yourself in a PF of one of us you seem to take issue with, you'll find 1 of 3 things happen if your DPS sucks: 1 you'll be kicked, possibly with the comment "your DPS is too low" or 2: You'll be kicked with a comment along the lines of "your dps sucks learn to play noob" or 3: Nothing will be said, and you'll be carried but you might not be accepted into the next group. Please enlighten me again, as to how you're going to be pulled into someone else's power fantasy. The fact of the matter is, you're not going to find yourself playing with the people you fear will ridicule you, and if you end up in a DF with them, so what? If your DPS is poor then they're already trash talking you behind your back and as long as they don't say "my parser tells me you are doing bad dps", then they can comment all they want on your DPS, without fear of reprisal, as long as it's not harassment.

[Massterchef]

stuff

Clearing content when it is relevant has nothing to do with elitist status. That would actually make you a regular player in most player's book. It has to do with the perspective you are bringing to the discussion. Clearly a lot, don't see the importance of a parser because they push content when it isn't relevant. Not that it makes you a bad player but obviously they are lacking the perspective required to participate in a discussion concerning a tool you don't use nor even need considering you complete the content when it is less than challenging.

And for the record, the only content you've cleared sub echo and over-gearing is maybe T5? Ironically, you share the same view as people that share your perspective and don't complete content when it's relevant or un-nerfed. I'm pointing that out to shame, there's nothing wrong with not completing content, but there's a correltation between the time people pursue content and their view on this subject obviously. Clearly parser availability won't affect your DR,Primals, or whatever outdated content you choose to participate in because they haven't been affected en mass currently.

[Massterchef]

That's great and all... but I don't play on the PC so I don't know what my numbers are and frankly I don't care. I've never cared. I don't play games to 'push myself', I play them to have fun and relax. If you find it fun to push yourself then great, more power to you. Just don't drag me into your power fantasy, I don't want any part of it. Nor should anyone else be forced into your idea of fun. This is the concern. People using publicly accessible parsers to try and push others without consent. "But they're consenting to it by taking part." No, no they aren't. They are taking part to take part. Nowhere does taking part include giving consent to ridicule, be it constructive or otherwise.

Post is pretty irrelevant to anything I've said. Nobody is pushing anyone. But this further solidifies my point that you really have no perspective on the issue.

[MythToken]

Stuff

Your perspective on my supposed lack of perspective is ironic.
Personal tiffs aside.

I do agree with you in that:
The community needs something for people to know if they are doing good dps or bad dps.
As of right now, our options are:

1. read about rotations and try to pull them off the best you can and hope they are right.

2. Use technically illegal parsers

3. Eyeball it with how big of numbers you get (lol)

None of these are great options. So no matter what side of the fence you are on, the community does need a way to improve itself. Especially in terms of dps.

Is an in game parser the answer to that? Maybe.

I would rather SE just officially support 3rd party parsers, so that they can be improved. And people don't have to worry about getting banned.
(only downside is PS3/PS4)

I also think the community might be less hostile towards the idea of parsers, if they were given a personal parser, and their dps wasn't on display for everyone to see.
I don't care about this personally, but there are a large number of players that do.

[Massterchef]

Its always amusing to see people downplay the negative behavior that being able to freely harass people with parser numbers brings. Give personal parsers so players in statics can learn and improve, but adding it freely to be spammed in PUG content is just wishing and praying for toxic behavior.

For one, harassing people is already against ToS. Secondly, they are already "spammed" in Pug content. Any PC player that wants to view their own DPS which is a lot already have them, yet the Apocalypse of "toxic behavior" is not upon us.

[Massterchef]

I would rather SE just officially support 3rd party parsers, so that they can be improved. And people don't have to worry about getting banned.
(only downside is PS3/PS4)

Whether they officially support them or not is not the issue because people that use them aren't afraid of getting banned at all. The fact that a PS player does not have the option to even have one is the issue.

[SDaemon]

For one, harassing people is already against ToS. Secondly, they are already "spammed" in Pug content. Any PC player that wants to view their own DPS which is a lot already have them, yet the Apocalypse of "toxic behavior" is not upon us.

The "apocalypse", as you cutely put it, isn't here because the situation we have now and the situation a public in game parser would cause are not even closely the same.