DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Dante_V]

I think personal parsers for self dps should absolutely be added and it's absurd that you can't see your own dps. It would change absolutely nothing and promote better play. No one else would be able to see and the people everyone else is worried about seeing dps and causing drama already see your dps with their parser so claiming that will be an issue is redundant because it's something that is already occurring.

[Welsper59]

I think personal parsers for self dps should absolutely be added and it's absurd that you can't see your own dps. It would change absolutely nothing and promote better play. No one else would be able to see and the people everyone else is worried about seeing dps and causing drama already see your dps with their parser so claiming that will be an issue is redundant because it's something that is already occurring.

The fact they don't officially support it is SE's tool to help prevent bad behavior on that matter. If someone calls you out on your poor DPS and mocks/kicks you unjustly for it, namely if they actually reveal your numbers or mention parsers, you'd have the opportunity to contact a GM about it and have this person suffer the consequences for their behavior as a result of third party programs. This is something you would NOT be able to do very easily if parsers were officially allowed. Situational mocking of someone is not an offense that violates the ToS just because you hurt someones feelings of their gameplay, afterall.

Most people know they shouldn't but the need to stroke their e-peen can be too much to resist for some. Mind you, in most cases, the groups actual need for parsers exists in hardest areas of content does exist, so generally speaking, everyone acknowledges they need to do so much to beat it. It's generally not a big deal to expose use of parsers in those types of groups, as long as it's not negatively impacting anyone (i.e. being used to mock someone). It's still not something you should openly reveal though, given the circumstance. Not really a big deal though.

[Massterchef]

This is something you would NOT be able to do very easily if parsers were officially allowed. Situational mocking of someone is not an offense that violates the ToS just because you hurt someones feelings of their gameplay, afterall.

Not true at all. The harassment is what the focus on when banning or whatever conciquence they deem necessary. The fact that you are parsing is irrelevant even in the current ToS.

[Welsper59]

Not true at all. The harassment is what the focus on when banning or whatever conciquence they deem necessary. The fact that you are parsing is irrelevant even in the current ToS.

Overly done, yeah, it's very easy to catch someone and take appropriate action against them as a GM. In those cases, often very particular words are used (e.g. racial slurs or threats of violence), and these make it easy to make a call. In the case of parsers however, saying "your dps is really low. get gud nub" followed by "im carrying this group cuz the other guy sucks" and so on, is not grounds to take action against alone, regardless of how annoying this person may be. The parsing tool has a lot to do with whether or not action is taken though, even if it may not be the primary personal reason you call a GM (you called because this guys an asshole), it may be the main reason a GM can easily take action if parsing is suspected.

An old interview you may or may not have seen (particularly important in this context is the last 30sec) :
https://youtu.be/3-WXYg-S05U?t=6m4s

[Welsper59]

It has nothing to do with parsing, period. The people that get actions taken against them in-game for parsing are usually abusing it via harassment. They aren't actively looking for or into people 'suspected of parsing'.

Yes, exactly. When did I say otherwise? It's the people abusing its use or bragging too much about it that will have action taken against them, of which will involve their use of it along with whatever other violations. Third party tools, no matter how harmless, are not allowed or approved of... period. They don't WANT to get people banned (temp) for its use, but they will simply because parsing, which is done through a third party program, is not allowed. Parsing in this game is a "hush hush" matter, which means you have the go-ahead, just don't be stupid about it. Summed up, the fact it's not allowed is a tool used against bad behavior.

[Massterchef]

Yes, exactly. When did I say otherwise?

This is something you would NOT be able to do very easily if parsers were officially allowed. Situational mocking of someone is not an offense that violates the ToS just because you hurt someones feelings of their gameplay, afterall.

By claiming a person would rarely receive any consequences for harassing someone for poor DPS simply because parsers were legal. Which is again, not the case. Even if they were fair game to use, harassing people for low DPS would not be allowed.

Basically even if there is proof(via parse) that someone's DPS is low, that does not give you a green light to mock and ridicule.

[Welsper59]

By claiming a person would rarely receive any consequences for harassing someone for poor DPS simply because parsers were legal. Which is again, not the case. Even if they were fair game to use, harassing people for low DPS would not be allowed.

Basically even if there is proof(via parse) that someone's DPS is low, that does not give you a green light to mock and ridicule.

I never said rarely, or even implied it anywhere. Just because something isn't easy to do, doesn't mean it is rarely done. Please don't confuse difficulty with rarity. It is 100% correct to claim that judging someones intent or actions to be worthy of consequence as a figure of authority (i.e. a GM) is not to be taken lightly. Hence, the not being able to do very easily comment. You seem to be applying too much of your own outlook into wrongfully accusing me of something I'm not saying or even remotely implying.

Right now, because parsers require a third party add-on, parsing IS in-fact grounds for action if they choose to act on it. So yeah, parsing by default due to circumstance for this specific game, is in violation. Don't misconstrue my words into an all or nothing. I'm pointing out that the current state of things makes the fact that it's not approved of to be a tool to fight against bad behavior, one of many in that arsenal for player protection. I do agree however, that mockery and ridicule is not right, regardless of what is and isn't allowed to use as a tool.

EDIT: Ugh... connection cut before could edit.

[kpxmanifesto]

Not true at all. The harassment is what the focus on when banning or whatever conciquence they deem necessary. The fact that you are parsing is irrelevant even in the current ToS.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. This guy got an account penalty for merely mentioning a dps parser. http://imgur.com/OX7Z2yt. Found this searching google images.

This happened approximately a year ago. I'm not sure if anything has been changed since then.

This conversation with the GM makes it look like the guy was just talking to his friend about a dps parser. What actually happened is still unknown to me.

[Dante_V]

The fact they don't officially support it is SE's tool to help prevent bad behavior on that matter. If someone calls you out on your poor DPS and mocks/kicks you unjustly for it, namely if they actually reveal your numbers or mention parsers, you'd have the opportunity to contact a GM about it and have this person suffer the consequences for their behavior as a result of third party programs. This is something you would NOT be able to do very easily if parsers were officially allowed. Situational mocking of someone is not an offense that violates the ToS just because you hurt someones feelings of their gameplay, afterall.

My point is that it isn't objectively preventing anything at all. Groups will disband and reform without the low parsing dps, no harassment needed.

The point here being is that it isn't the "third party programs (parsers)" that SE is banning you for in this instance it's because you used it to harass someone. Square knows well that people use parsers and do not care, they just don't want you harassing people with it. But even with all of this there is still not a valid reason to not let a person see their OWN dps numbers. None at all.

"This is something you would NOT be able to do very easily if parsers were officially allowed"

^^ This is nothing more than assumption and there is no objective proof that allowing a person to see their own dps will make it "harder" to stop people from harassing each other. It's a non-sequitur. Harassment has and will be dealt with the same way it has always been.