DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[Ghasto]

Dude World firsts are because they are at the bare minimum gear requirements that dps matters. After that its way easier to hit enrages/dps checks.

But again to my point, anyone in a World First raid group, isn't going to lie about their dps numbers to their group, if they could see their own dps. So again seeing only your own dps would still work.

DPS never stops mattering, DF t13 and get 4 DPS all doing sub 300 and tell me that you can clear it, identifying problems and removing them (or even fixing them) is a key part of building a strong team that can clear content.

[RiceisNice]

...

And this would become just as much as a problem considering we have FCoB on DF/PF. Even for my static's first clear, we were pushing the 5th akh morn. Granted I know beyond a doubt that all the dps in my static knows their job and can do well, but there's the off chance that a PF party would lug a not-so-great or bad dps that they're hitting 4 megaflares or a 5th flare star whatever.

[Asierid]

Do you even PF bro?

Clearly you don't. I can hold your hand and google the amount of PF trolling for you if you wish.

It is clear your argument is invalid at this point as you have nothing constructive to reply with. Bad tanks and healers get called out all the time for not playing correctly. The soft hearted DPS can either step it up and play progression or stay in older content until they are good enough to do so. We're asking for the tools to help other people with, and to punish those who don't want the help, yet are trying to sneak by. Being able to hide behind a lame excuse and ToS doesn't help that matter.

But hey, spam Butcher's Block if you wish.

[RiceisNice]

Like you said, you don't need a meter to kick for poor dps, you can tell by rotations ect. My point being that the community as a whole would suffer from people who would abuse a feature we don't need. And no one would learn from it. I am not implying you would abuse it, and that it isn't useful. I just disagree with implementing it before personal dps meters.

Well the end result is that I'm still kicking them for doing bad dps because they're messing up rotations. I mean in the end people will still do this anyway with or without meters for really any reason. I wouldn't consider "giving them more ammo" to be the case if they were to implement meters of sort.

[ZanzhizExaverion]

This exploded over night. Posted it just before bed. I may as well give my own two cents.

My opinion on DPS metering isn't as strict as many others. I don't host many parties, I tank, so if we wipe because of others a bunch of times it's "aight boys I'm out ya'll don't know how to farm this" kind of deal.

As a Rank 45 PVP player however, it's really nice to see your numbers at the end of the trial. Healing, Damage, Kills, it all makes you go damn I did well. Or the opposite.

I personally think too many people are afraid of these systems, they can be used toxically easily, but you have to think that it's only going to be used in a 'malicious' way when you literally lose to DPS checks. If you die to mechanics, sure, whatever, but not hitting DPS checks is the real deal, that's when yoy need to find out who's auto attacking.

But they can also be used in less DPS intensive fights to ask the person what's up with their rotation and maybe how you can help them improve.

Granted, the PVP scoreboard doesn't show per second, so I doubt it could be used AS negatively as a true parsing system, so I think everyone's stemmi worry and resentment from those primarily.

Did you know you could kill WoD bosses before their second rotation if people stopped auto attacking the bosses?

[Darra]

Like you said, you don't need a meter to kick for poor dps, you can tell by rotations ect. My point being that the community as a whole would suffer from people who would abuse a feature we don't need. And no one would learn from it. I am not implying you would abuse it, and that it isn't useful. I just disagree with implementing it before personal dps meters.

People abuse alcohol, junk food, the internet, sex, various drugs and of course caffeine. The community is suffering as a result. Let's ban them all.... See how stupid this sounds? Now apply that to your own argument. If it can be abused, it will be abused, if it can be broken, it will be broken. So let's just ban everything "for the greater good".

[siverstorm]

(stop pretending like you care)

Stop defending bad dps and pretending like it's okay to put stress on the rest of the group. Holy crap.

Especially in farms, the longer a fight draws on the more chances there are for error. It's not okay to be running t10 and t11 to the enrage timers when the group is in mostly i130 with echo. You're hilarious if you think a group of i130+echo hitting 5 bennus in a farm is okay. Why is it okay to come into content where dps matters and then play poorly (I'm not talking about towers or trivial dungeons either)? My static doesn't farm coil day in and day out so I'll find myself in farm parties via PF occasionally, I know what I can personally pull and strive to do better when possible.

Why do 5 or 6 competent players have to suffer because 2 or 3 refuse to improve, or choose to cry harassment for being kicked out of a group? This kind of crap is the exact problem I'm talking about. If a person can't bring it upon themselves to improve why are dps exempt from being put in the line of fire but bad tanking and healing can be called out like it's going out of style. Why the hell is it okay to effectively waste the time of a group of people like that? Because you don't care about other people but yourself? That has to be it, right? If you think it's okay to enter content where dps matters and play poorly then you're part of the problem. I've seen tons of pug groups fall apart because they STILL can't clear stuff like t10 add phase with echo and over i125 gear.

[SpookyGhost]

Camp 1 only really works when other people are willing to share. [other words]

I agree, to a degree (zing).

While having a universal parser makes things massively easier, it is possible to use an individual parsing system that gives you a goal to shoot toward, and what can be achieved with min/max. I think a ranking system was brought up in this thread which seemed like a good idea to me. Meeting the minimum DPS requirement would give you an A rank, S for going beyond that, and S+ to go even further beyond. People would want to get an A rank at the least and the system would encourage that (maybe if you get an A rank, you get some kind of small reward). That way you want to do good DPS (or even better DPS) but aren't being forced to by other player's.

[MageBlack]

I see the uses for a parser but, just like any other tool, it depends on how people choose to use it. If you use a wrench to beat someone over the head, you are tooling wrong. I would love to be able to see how my rotation looks, compare it to others, find the optimal skills to have in my hotbar, etc. I'm using a controller so my hotbar space is valuable.

As for the PvP stats, its nice and all but it does nothing for Tanks. It would be nice to see "Damage taken" or something like that to see if you are tanking well. I think, if there is a legit parser that will be implemented it will look like what is shown and only appear after the instance is over. Possibly combined with a personal parser that only you can see, not something shared team wide. I would totally support that. Its tough crunching numbers after beating on a training dummy.

[lolnin]

I agree, to a degree (zing).

While having a universal parser makes things massively easier, it is possible to use an individual parsing system that gives you a goal to shoot toward, and what can be achieved with min/max. I think a ranking system was brought up in this thread which seemed like a good idea to me. Meeting the minimum DPS requirement would give you an A rank, S for going beyond that, and S+ to go even further beyond. People would want to get an A rank at the least and the system would encourage that (maybe if you get an A rank, you get some kind of small reward). That way you want to do good DPS (or even better DPS) but aren't being forced to by other player's.

Even though one where public comparisons could be made would be superior (so people can actually pinpoint where someone is doing something wrong and help them fix it), this is a perfectly reasonable workaround imo