DPS display could easily be solved with a system already in game.

[MythToken]

I understand why you want the meter. And yes it would accomplish the things you want.

But I just disagree with it. And having the meter on a dummy would still be an improvement over no meter at all.

[RiceisNice]

I understand why you want the meter. And yes it would accomplish the things you want.

But I just disagree with it. And having the meter on a dummy would still be an improvement over no meter at all.

Disagreeing because "you will use dps meters to kick" is an incredibly black and white statement, that's why we're butting heads a bit. I mean dps typically isn't even an issue when we're talking 4 man content or CT unless it's blatantly obvious that they're auto attack afking or standing idle, there's more than enough buffer from the rest of the group to make up for it (although this also because 4 man dungeons are really undertuned on release).

I hope that, if Camp #1 gets their wish, that it leads to improvement of DPS so that less people from Camp #2 feel the need to be able to kick others for their DPS. As long as DPS checks exist in the game, it's going to be a problem if you're the guy causing the failure of those checks or other people are being forced to go above and beyond to carry you through it.

Camp 1 only really works when other people are willing to share. Seeing your own number more often than not really offers no context depending on the fight and situation. How would you know your 200 dps is bad? That "public shaming" needs to happen at some point to some degree when it comes to dps comparison. Camp 2 is honestly going to happen no matter what. You already have people that kick for seeing a 100 soldiery tag, and I've gotten kicked out of a ramuh party for pointing out that the other bard wasn't doing his job with baiting... Some people out there really habe absurd standards when it comes to dpsing, mine is just "pull your weight" or "play your class properly" in my farm parties. Giving me a meter isn't really giving me more ammo to kick those sort of players because I can see it anyway.

[MythToken]

Disagreeing because "you will use dps meters to kick" is an incredibly black and white statement, that's why we're butting heads a bit. I mean dps typically isn't even an issue when we're talking 4 man content or CT unless it's blatantly obvious that they're auto attack afking or standing idle, there's more than enough buffer from the rest of the group to make up for it (although this also because 4 man dungeons are really undertuned on release).

I am not saying you would use it soley for that. But maybe Asierid would.

Again if you saw your own dps, and were in a group of people you raid with consistantly you can just tell each other your numbers.

I agree with you that something will eventually happen. I just think phasing it in would be better than implementing it where you can see everyone's number.
And then seeing how that improves or does not improve player quality.

What if to start, they let you see everyone's dps on a training dummy. Then at least you could account for buffs, ect.

[RiceisNice]

I am not saying you would use it soley for that. But maybe Asierid would.

Again if you saw your own dps, and were in a group of people you raid with consistantly you can just tell each other your numbers.

Using a check with your static is a pretty small scenario though. My side is, I don't want to defend people who do poorly as their role as dps. Implementing almost anything into this game is a double edged sword as far as the community is concerned (lock outs and vote kick for example).

And how would I be using it differently from Asieird if I used a dps meter to kick people for doing poor dps?

Also all the end game raiding in this game literally = mechanics > than all

I also disagree with this, at least for FCoB. It may have been true with SCoB (which is why I hate those encounters), but FCoB is pressing your party to do their jobs well. Seeing more than 5 bennus or four megaflares in phase 1 T13 when we have 10% echo is incredibly frustrating, seeing healers who can't catch preys or mitigate me for flatten makes me go "AAAAAH!!!!"

[MythToken]

Using a check with your static is a pretty small scenario though. My side is, I don't want to defend people who do poorly as their role as dps. Implementing almost anything into this game is a double edged sword as far as the community is concerned (lock outs and vote kick for example).

And how would I be using it differently from Asieird if I used a dps meter to kick people for doing poor dps?

Like you said, you don't need a meter to kick for poor dps, you can tell by rotations ect. My point being that the community as a whole would suffer from people who would abuse a feature we don't need. And no one would learn from it. I am not implying you would abuse it, and that it isn't useful. I just disagree with implementing it before personal dps meters.

[RiceisNice]

Like you said, you don't need a meter to kick for poor dps, you can tell by rotations ect. My point being that the community as a whole would suffer from people who would abuse a feature we don't need. And no one would learn from it. I am not implying you would abuse it, and that it isn't useful. I just disagree with implementing it before personal dps meters.

Well the end result is that I'm still kicking them for doing bad dps because they're messing up rotations. I mean in the end people will still do this anyway with or without meters for really any reason. I wouldn't consider "giving them more ammo" to be the case if they were to implement meters of sort.

[Darra]

Like you said, you don't need a meter to kick for poor dps, you can tell by rotations ect. My point being that the community as a whole would suffer from people who would abuse a feature we don't need. And no one would learn from it. I am not implying you would abuse it, and that it isn't useful. I just disagree with implementing it before personal dps meters.

People abuse alcohol, junk food, the internet, sex, various drugs and of course caffeine. The community is suffering as a result. Let's ban them all.... See how stupid this sounds? Now apply that to your own argument. If it can be abused, it will be abused, if it can be broken, it will be broken. So let's just ban everything "for the greater good".

[SpookyGhost]

Camp 1 only really works when other people are willing to share. [other words]

I agree, to a degree (zing).

While having a universal parser makes things massively easier, it is possible to use an individual parsing system that gives you a goal to shoot toward, and what can be achieved with min/max. I think a ranking system was brought up in this thread which seemed like a good idea to me. Meeting the minimum DPS requirement would give you an A rank, S for going beyond that, and S+ to go even further beyond. People would want to get an A rank at the least and the system would encourage that (maybe if you get an A rank, you get some kind of small reward). That way you want to do good DPS (or even better DPS) but aren't being forced to by other player's.

[lolnin]

I agree, to a degree (zing).

While having a universal parser makes things massively easier, it is possible to use an individual parsing system that gives you a goal to shoot toward, and what can be achieved with min/max. I think a ranking system was brought up in this thread which seemed like a good idea to me. Meeting the minimum DPS requirement would give you an A rank, S for going beyond that, and S+ to go even further beyond. People would want to get an A rank at the least and the system would encourage that (maybe if you get an A rank, you get some kind of small reward). That way you want to do good DPS (or even better DPS) but aren't being forced to by other player's.

Even though one where public comparisons could be made would be superior (so people can actually pinpoint where someone is doing something wrong and help them fix it), this is a perfectly reasonable workaround imo

[Kiara]

I think a ranking system was brought up in this thread which seemed like a good idea to me. Meeting the minimum DPS requirement would give you an A rank, S for going beyond that, and S+ to go even further beyond. People would want to get an A rank at the least and the system would encourage that (maybe if you get an A rank, you get some kind of small reward). That way you want to do good DPS (or even better DPS) but aren't being forced to by other player's.

This would be a good Positive Rewards / Goal System idea that would encourage players to strive to get better. We see stuff like this a lot in Action Games, like CAPCOM's Devil May Cry, or ratings at the end of Fighting Games. Maybe you get Bonus Tomestones, or other cool Rewards for getting S Rank, etc.?





That way, individual players can see their own Rank and strive to improve, without the toxicity and bullying / abuse that goes on with various people.